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Author Topic:  starter maps exp  (Read 44 times)

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Dolfo

« on: 19, November 2022, 23:18:56 »
Trying to balance exp in early maps. What is the way to balance mobs in maps?

Adjust each mob manuel in maps, what is a pain for mapmakers?
or
Adjust the arches exp, where we are limited to arches?
For example all red ants have same exp, also Ant Scout leader.

Looking in ant maps, someone adjusted close to all monsters manuel in map definitions. Spider and 2 red ant warriors are not adjusted by map, these get the exp from arches. Comparing to the other guildhall maps, all mobs have mostly exp 46 in there, so ants is the only map where new players get good exp.

I found this
https://www.daimonin.org/1179/default-mobs-for-the-editor/msg11645/#msg11645

So when map makers don't adjust exp, we get the exp from arches.
ant_red           41
ant_soldier   46
spider_widow   49

Must reader deeper here, but auto generated exp for level 2 ant scout leader is red_ant exp = 41 exp, what is very bad exp. So this is also a mess here. Do we go the way to adjust maps manuel by maps or do we use dynamic logics and get the exp from arches?
« Last Edit: 19, November 2022, 23:46:35 by Dolfo »
Don't believe the shit, you hear in mainstream. Believe your own body. Your body is speaking always the true to you. But you need to understand your body. Hear to your body, not to your ego. And when body is calling to you: "Hey something is wrong!" find the reason(s) for that. School medicine don't go for that, they don't want to heal you. They want earn money and sell you medicine, you should take rest of you life. School medicine is corrupted by bad humans, like politician, like media.

Shroud

« Reply #1 on: 20, November 2022, 00:11:36 »
I think the best option would be to take it from the arches (although values may need tweaked).

As far as beginner maps go there is actually a ready made solution that could be applied that is in people's mob mask modifiers that increased HP, dps, treasure lists etc and in the same way XP can also be modified so perhaps a beginner dungeon (human_plane covers them all?) specific mask could be the optimal solution.

Default values I think might date from crossfire
Doesn't matter, you'd die anyway. ;D Shroud's a hacker. After many hours of deep thought I have came to that conclusion.

_people_

« Reply #2 on: 22, November 2022, 08:28:08 »
I think beginner maps should have a bit quicker EXP so new players can quickly get settled in with whatever "class" they've chosen.

I've been planning on making monster masks available to be applied to an entire map. I wasn't even considering this situation, but it works well here.

In the map header, you have "masks <list>" and all spawn points will add their map's masks to their own. In this situation, simply creating a monster mask which gives an EXP bonus and applying it to low-level maps seems like a good, maintainable solution.
-- _people_ :)

Dolfo

« Reply #3 on: 22, November 2022, 18:15:18 »
Quicker exp for new players should be normaly handled by the max needed exp for a level, for this we have:

sint32 exp_threshold
0,       1000,       2000,       4000,       8000, // 1-5

So if we need additional logics to adjust early exp, this is not the best solution. On my current local i cleaned the ant maps from unique exp definitions there. Adjusting exp in maps or by scripts should be done only in very special situations, like a world boss for example.

Cleaning ants from exp, means my exp for ants comes now from arches and dynamic adjustments, i still try to understand. The definitions in arches are not that much worth, it's more a kind of finetuning, but changing one point there can lead to high differences on high level monsters. This is also the reason most definitions in arches are in range of 40 to 50. So theoretically we can clean arches from exp definitions and start with a server specific value.

If we want give special exp to early players, we can also try this by mechanics like an early game exp blessing buff. Logic must be near same like our current self strengh buff is working. So instead writing at every places in code exp adjustment code, we can use these buff mechanics. I think i try this, when i build a tavern quest. Perhaps this can be combined with a kind of rest bonus for exp in future. This would help normal gamers to get some more exp when playing perhaps an hour a day and hardcore gamers spending 8 hours can also not cry, because they have also access to this 1 hour bonus.

But back to topic. Ant maps should be cleaned from unique exp adjustments by map. And yes your idea is a way to adjust a map very fast. I must look in your builded logics by time.

But currently i would try this logic.

when map has a unique exp definition get the exp from there.
if not
 when arches have a definition get the definiton from there.
   if not use a kind of server specific value
    use the dynamic to build the exp by mapdifficulty, level, mask, perhaps also hitpoints? ...
      adjust this exp when monster has spawned

so we should have a clean exp build workflow when creating a monster.
also mappers should have more understandable tools to build maps
like doing nothing on exp, new mappers get a nice exp from dynamic calc for their monsters
overwriting hard they get excactly this exp.
or tuning with mapdifficulty, monster level, monster "item_level" or a map mask, they get their personal modded dynamic.

and when a player get his kills.
the calculation for skills, level differences, server exp, rest bonus, ... is done.

So a lot of work to have a nice flow.
« Last Edit: 22, November 2022, 18:20:51 by Dolfo »
Don't believe the shit, you hear in mainstream. Believe your own body. Your body is speaking always the true to you. But you need to understand your body. Hear to your body, not to your ego. And when body is calling to you: "Hey something is wrong!" find the reason(s) for that. School medicine don't go for that, they don't want to heal you. They want earn money and sell you medicine, you should take rest of you life. School medicine is corrupted by bad humans, like politician, like media.

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