Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

Author Topic:  Rebalancing Weapons  (Read 105 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Dolfo

« on: 13, November 2022, 04:51:51 »
I remember a time, players used the gofannon quest to improve their weapons. This was a high level late game feature players liked a lot. Of course players abused this by using twinks and also using this guildhall beginner quest to improve high damage late game weapons is not optimal.

But the idea behind is nice. If we make this feature buyable and make the cost very high, also in relation to tier level and material of the weapon, this could be a super nice late game target for players to rebalance their weapons.

So currently all this logic is more a waste, if we limit it on gofannon smith and limit it to level 7 iron, leather weapons. I know a smith out there, with the name michael, who would be perfect for such a new late game rebalance smith. He lives between uc and dt (world_1012 12,16). Perhaps we can combine the money calculation from reforge with the rebalance feature. I would also go for a very high price for this. A lot of gold, perhaps up to mith? I think players would love it to have such a late game money feature.

This could also lead to change the gofanon quest to a more simple reward like a free identify all for the cat skin quest?
« Last Edit: 13, November 2022, 04:53:55 by Dolfo »
Don't believe the shit, you hear in mainstream. Believe your own body. Your body is speaking always the true to you. But you need to understand your body. Hear to your body, not to your ego. And when body is calling to you: "Hey something is wrong!" find the reason(s) for that. School medicine don't go for that, they don't want to heal you. They want earn money and sell you medicine, you should take rest of you life. School medicine is corrupted by bad humans, like politician, like media.

Shroud

« Reply #1 on: 13, November 2022, 21:07:56 »
If I remember correctly the issue has always been one of balancing (ironically rebalancing weapons affects game balance). So I think it was restricted to lvl 3 weapons so it wouldn't affect endgame players as lvl 3 weapons were all useless (apart from 1h donation weapons that are currently unobtainable).

Issue we get is that all offence types wouldn't scale in the same fashion. So let's imagine a warrior with 400 dps and he can rebalance his weapon to be 10% faster. His dps changes from 400 to 444.44 to 493.8 to 548.7 to 609.6 after rebalancing 4 times. So that means that with enough money melee weapons (and maybe bows etc) can increase in dps while spells and prayers cannot. This means that unless you have an equivalent for spells and prayers skills won't grow in the same fashion so it's hard to balance if melee damage can vary wildly with rebalancing.

From what I can remember all features that modify equipment can be a bit buggy as Bebeniss quest with blessing has also been problematic so I'm unsure how reliable it is.
Doesn't matter, you'd die anyway. ;D Shroud's a hacker. After many hours of deep thought I have came to that conclusion.

Dolfo

« Reply #2 on: 13, November 2022, 21:16:04 »
Rebalancing should be limited by once only and if you rebalance high tier weapons this should cost a lot of gold. Currently its limited to level 7 weapons and limited to iron, leather, hardend leather and a forth matierial i forgot.
Don't believe the shit, you hear in mainstream. Believe your own body. Your body is speaking always the true to you. But you need to understand your body. Hear to your body, not to your ego. And when body is calling to you: "Hey something is wrong!" find the reason(s) for that. School medicine don't go for that, they don't want to heal you. They want earn money and sell you medicine, you should take rest of you life. School medicine is corrupted by bad humans, like politician, like media.

_people_

« Reply #3 on: 13, November 2022, 21:24:16 »
Historically ToB rewards and weapon rebalancing had the critical flaw of being able to be repeated infinitely. There are many ways around this, but I opted to go for the unified item buff system. Using some Lua hooks, these scripts create an object inside the weapon which stores stat changes. We can then use other hooks to check if an item already has this buff, or has too many other buffs already.

The max number of buffs an item can receive is normally limited by quality (though I don't recall if I adjusted it with the quality changes). Alternatively, items can be given a "max_buffs" value which overrides that.

Individual buffs can have maximum quantities as well, so rebalances can be limited.

I'm also not sure whether Gofannon actually uses this new system. I know I updated the ToB quest rewards because those had been disabled since 2008.  It's probably safe from a code perspective to change his reward structure to allow it to be used more, but as Shroud mentions there are also balance concerns at play.

AFAIK this system currently works bug-free but it's possible there are bugs I'm not aware of. It'll probably be changed up a bit in the future since monster masks are a similar feature but are implemented as artifacts. It'd be more sensible to have all object modifiers use the artifact code rather than a mix of various methods.
-- _people_ :)

Shroud

« Reply #4 on: 13, November 2022, 21:51:28 »
Just thinking a bit and I'm unsure how possible it is but for game balance I'd suggest the following:
We introduce 2 stats being
Attack Speed
Casting Speed

Attack speed affects melee weapons and ranged attacks. Casting speed affects prayers and spells. So that would mean all attacks scale in the same way.

If such a thing were to be introduced I think it would be good to be as part of a whole system of enchantments where for example you could enchant your equipment with pow or str bonuses. Such an approach would mean that rather than hoping to find a high qua item of the right enchantment you could start with a high qua item (or even upgrade it) and then enchant it with stats you want. Potentially in that scenario enchantments could become one of the main money sinks although in that scenario it would be good to have enchantment/buff slots visible as a stat.
Doesn't matter, you'd die anyway. ;D Shroud's a hacker. After many hours of deep thought I have came to that conclusion.

_people_

« Reply #5 on: 14, November 2022, 22:03:00 »
I think splitting attack/cast speed is a good idea.

Currently cast speed depends solely on the spell. This is fine, but if we want to add a "cast speed" stat then it would probably be best to be a global modifier applied to all spells/prayers. In this case, casters are separated from non-casters in that they can get their bonus from any equipment rather than just their weapon.

This could be solved quite easily by giving an equivalent bonus to non-caster equipment. For example, a pair of gloves could have "attack speed -0.125" or "cast speed -0.125". But then rebalancing weapons would still be a buff exclusive to weapon-users.

0.125 seconds being the default server tick speed, so actions can't (safely) happen at intervals other than 0.125 seconds.
-- _people_ :)

Shroud

« Reply #6 on: 15, November 2022, 00:20:37 »
Way I look at it rebalancing would actually simply be an attack speed buff. So if you want it to be a weapon exclusive buff then attack/cast speed can only be done on weapons. Otherwise it could in theory be on all equipment. If you can pay for an attack speed boost then you can also pay for a cast speed boost instead

Having said that preferred implementation imo would be % based and then rounding to the nearest 0.125 value. Reason is that if you had a weapon with a very short attack speed then static decreases have a higher proportional effect. For example a 1s weapon reduced by 0.875s is 8 times faster while a 4s weapon reduced by the same amount is only 1.28x faster.
Doesn't matter, you'd die anyway. ;D Shroud's a hacker. After many hours of deep thought I have came to that conclusion.

Dolfo

« Reply #7 on: 24, November 2022, 21:31:29 »
I have changed gofannon on my local server and made rebalancing buyable.

The reason that players could rebalance again and again in past was a bug.
instead of checking this
Code: [Select]
if weapon.weapon_speed < arch.weapon_speed then
they checked that
Code: [Select]
if  arch.weapon_speed < weapon.weapon_speed then

So there was a check, that rebalance weapon can only be done once, but bugged.

When changing gofannon quest reward to a free identify all, i noticed, that our smith lua script is also targeting the deprecated function npc:IdentifyItem(). There was no hint, how to replace this, so i took the identify spell for smithy.

So rebalance weapons, the way gofannon does it, is working also in late game, when it will be combined with a good cost formula. Sure we can build better buff logics later, but for the moment, it's enough (work) for me to change gofannon.lua and smith lua to an interesting early game reward and to an interesting payable late game rebalance option for all weapons once only.
Don't believe the shit, you hear in mainstream. Believe your own body. Your body is speaking always the true to you. But you need to understand your body. Hear to your body, not to your ego. And when body is calling to you: "Hey something is wrong!" find the reason(s) for that. School medicine don't go for that, they don't want to heal you. They want earn money and sell you medicine, you should take rest of you life. School medicine is corrupted by bad humans, like politician, like media.

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
2 Replies
1892 Views
Last post 08, June 2008, 07:49:18
by _CG_
74 Replies
151507 Views
Last post 26, March 2011, 14:42:33
by clobber
5 Replies
7021 Views
Last post 17, November 2010, 16:18:42
by Sherock
4 Replies
2556 Views
Last post 17, September 2010, 02:30:46
by longir
1 Replies
1757 Views
Last post 05, October 2010, 07:40:13
by _Matthi_