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Author Topic:  Remove run mode  (Read 77734 times)

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smacky

« Reply #15 on: 22, August 2016, 20:06:52 »
Only took 3.5 years...

All gone from 0.10.8. Means older 0.10.z clients on a 0.10.8 server will do a lot of /run command not found whining when you hold down ALT. But otherwise no ill effects.

And Joe might cry a bit but he'll get over it.

Shroud

« Reply #16 on: 22, August 2016, 20:26:01 »
That means we can no longer prank noobs with /run command?
Doesn't matter, you'd die anyway. ;D Shroud's a hacker. After many hours of deep thought I have came to that conclusion.

Joe

« Reply #17 on: 25, August 2016, 08:54:51 »
Curious do players now run at the same speed using keyboard as they would mouse?  If not then, *RANT RANT RANT*  You Mouse haters...
Whoever said "Out of sight, out of mind" never had a spider disappear in their bedroom.

smacky

« Reply #18 on: 25, August 2016, 21:12:28 »
I think they do. You could always test...

Whatever, real speed of movement from A to B is severely broken (at least since B4, possibly since ever).

Someone will ask for details probably. I forget right now,but AFAIR if you remove a bit of client code, which acts as a throttle, you can basically move from A to B at warp speed. Which is bad (the server should have final say on everything, all the client does is ask permission).

_people_

« Reply #19 on: 29, August 2016, 19:43:28 »
I think today I will try to learn how the movement code works. Then perhaps I can find out what to do about mouse movement. @Joe since you're our biggest mouse mover, what do you think about the suggestion that was made years ago about a "click a tile to move there" approach?
-- _people_ :)

Shroud

« Reply #20 on: 29, August 2016, 19:48:48 »
Well as far as click to a tile to move there problem is that if you have two equally long routes you can't control movement so you could end up walking into a trap etc

There's also issue that if you need to navigate through hidden walls could a mouse user then let AI find route for them?

Would a mouse mode where character moves in direction where mouse is relative to character with distance affecting speed? Maybe a stop command too so you can go through inventory etc?
Doesn't matter, you'd die anyway. ;D Shroud's a hacker. After many hours of deep thought I have came to that conclusion.

_people_

« Reply #21 on: 29, August 2016, 20:14:31 »
Hmm, I hadn't thought of false walls before. I think that kind of kills that approach where it stands.

Distance affecting speed seems like a good idea, although to me mouse movement would still be hard to control, especially when you've got the mouse far from the character (means you have to move the mouse a much greater distance at high speeds to change direction). At some point I had a slightly better system in place (basically changed the calculation for "clicking a tile X, Y results in moving in D direction") that was a bit more accurate.

I think a 2-speed system would be ideal here. To move at a walk speed, click and hold the mouse within the 8 squares adjacent to the player. To move at maximum speed (which will be set by the server and coded into the client to be the same as current keyboard speed) click and hold anywhere outside that. Single-click movement speed will be based on how quickly the player can click the mouse (Joe might be able to achieve max. speed :) ).

-- _people_ :)

Shroud

« Reply #22 on: 29, August 2016, 20:21:06 »
To be honest mouse by definition will always  suffer from a control viewpoint for simple reason that keyboard gives digital input while mouse is analogue so on threshold between two values it will always be rough.

As a random aside while it might depend on mouse model potentially mousewheel in middle could control speed? Although then simple mice would be one speed so a two speed workaround might still be needed
Doesn't matter, you'd die anyway. ;D Shroud's a hacker. After many hours of deep thought I have came to that conclusion.

Joe

« Reply #23 on: 29, August 2016, 23:34:51 »
My idea of good mousing done right.

Using - and + keys to set speed thats comfortable for each player.


Battle mode:

Larger mouse pointer ( best if sphere shape )

Light transparent circle around the player, made into a pie. Edges of pie would have circles that highlight when the mouse sphere is placed in them. ( this is the direction to run )

Holding alt will put the mouse into the transparent circle surrounding player, one click in any pie direction will send character moving until alt is let off, or direction is changed.

So once alt is pressed the circle appears and automatically puts the mouse pointer inside the circle, it
remains inside the circle until alt is let off.  This helps keep pointer close to directions.

When alt is let off the pointer is once again able to move anywhere on screen, and the circle disappears.


Non Battle mode:

Click anywhere on the map to walk to.


The picture shown above is pretty ugly and could be done really nice with pointers showing direction, and
a more circular glyph.

I would also like to see a similar glyph with a different color for casting magic.  This would make
casting direction much easier too.  Having both run direction and casting direction use the same type of circle is an easy transition changing from running to casting, this keeps all directions simple and easy to click.

But all this I'm sure is more than what a coder wants to do.
« Last Edit: 30, August 2016, 01:44:04 by Joe »
Whoever said "Out of sight, out of mind" never had a spider disappear in their bedroom.

_people_

« Reply #24 on: 30, August 2016, 05:22:34 »
So I've drafted a plan and made some progress working on this. Right now I have  equalized keyboard and mouse movement input speeds and implemented a server-side maximum speed, which prevents players from doing client "hacks" to achieve ludicrous speed.

Unfortunately I made a mistake and this server-side maximum makes it so that all players in the game can only move 4x per tick, so it'll be a competition to see who's allowed to move each tick.  ;D The remedy is easy enough, I just have to make the moves per tick counter player-specific.

I'm thinking I might discard that hack altogether and just re-implement speed (making speed rings useful again) but it depends on whether I can get past the mess that is speed code.

Anyway, I'm open to making mouse movement more robust. If you can supply the graphics, I can make the code work. However, I don't think I'll implement the "click where you want to go" mode because it would involve adding some pathfinding to the client.
-- _people_ :)

smacky

« Reply #25 on: 30, August 2016, 23:06:11 »
blah blah blah

Sounds good. However:

One reason to get rid of run mode (not the main one) was to remove ALT as a hardwired key. ALT tends to be claimed by the OS (Linux at least) so is best avoided by sw IMO. Eventually we'll have ctrl w/wo shift to modify other bound keys, which gives 4x the current real estate: eg, A, cA, sA, csA.

Not sure I fully understand battle mode. How does this relate to the current combat mode (C) and targetting of enemies (X)/friends (S)/talkers (T), if at all?

Anyway a similar 'casting mode' could be done. But battle = melee, casting = ranged. Perhaps eventually hold shift for melee, ctrl for ranged?

Joe

« Reply #26 on: 31, August 2016, 00:00:12 »
Hmmm well Linux users aren't mousers anyways so they shouldn't worry about alt. (statistcal proof somewhere)  ::)

Have a switch in the settings to select either keyboard or mouse play.

The circles in the pie are the pin points where I click already when playing, this is just a visual aid to use periphereal vision instead of constantly staring at the invisible points to click. 

The hard part of mousing is the pointer moves around too much, if you sneeze while running the pointer
is probably off the screen.  Keeping it in a tight location makes things much easier.

The battle mode won't affect turning melee on or off, it's more a steering wheel for movement.  I just wanted to make it clear that a click to go won't work while trying to fight mobs.  It requires a little more finesse.

So for physical attacks you'd still use X to select (or just right click them like a boss mouser does). 

Ctrl for ranged is actually a pretty nice button to use while casting - throwing - shooting.
Whoever said "Out of sight, out of mind" never had a spider disappear in their bedroom.

Shroud

« Reply #27 on: 31, August 2016, 00:13:32 »
Actually other problem is you get hybrid users. For example I as a sensible player know that keyboard is only sensible way to control a character. However if checking equipment I'm wearing then hitting shift and going over playerdoll with mouse pointer to use tooltiptext is faster than scrolling through inventory and also easier when going through F key menus like macros with tabs.

A radical solution for mousers could be to get a daimonin specific peripheral that would be a gyroscope with central part having a mouse inside it. Then the user holds a piece of cheese in direction you want character to move and then mouse runs that way pushing gyroscope and sending a signal to client to move char that way.


Just imagine a mouse in the middle of that and control you could get with a bit of cheese...
Doesn't matter, you'd die anyway. ;D Shroud's a hacker. After many hours of deep thought I have came to that conclusion.

Joe

« Reply #28 on: 01, September 2016, 02:45:26 »
Few images showing possible glyphs:


Shown in game:
Whoever said "Out of sight, out of mind" never had a spider disappear in their bedroom.

Joe

« Reply #29 on: 02, September 2016, 09:57:42 »
Had some time to work on the glyph a bit more:




Whoever said "Out of sight, out of mind" never had a spider disappear in their bedroom.

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