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Author Topic:  Guild Revamp Discussion  (Read 62184 times)

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Shroud

« Reply #45 on: 23, April 2014, 23:18:10 »
Sounds pretty good :)
Doesn't matter, you'd die anyway. ;D Shroud's a hacker. After many hours of deep thought I have came to that conclusion.

clobber

« Reply #46 on: 24, April 2014, 20:26:20 »
Moved onto local testing and now only have scripts to fix. Fingers crossed it will be ready for you all to try and break over the weekend :)
Posted by Clobber

Collector Of Burnt out torches, 0 and Counting.

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Woof, Woof!

Quote from: Longir
I use caution, fear is a distraction

_people_

« Reply #47 on: 27, April 2014, 00:34:03 »
I'm starting to work on the multiple starts thing again. Unfortunately I'm not sure where I left off so I'll have to work it out.

EDIT: Okay, I've got it finished so that you can modify the race_start_locations array (top of map.c) and the NUM_START_LOCATIONS constant at the bottom of race.h to add multiple starting locations per race.

Each race can have its own group of starting locations. You can even set some locations to be more common (adding duplicates to the list). To do so, add to the race_start_locations array something in the form of:

{"human", "/planes/human_plane/castle/castle_030a", 18, 1, MAP_STATUS_MULTI}

Where the first index is the name of the race, the second is the absolute path to the map, the third/fourth are the x/y coordinates, and the last is the type of map (unique, instanced, multiplayer, etc.) that the location should be. Normally they should be MAP_STATUS_MULTI. Make sure you add a comma after all entries except the last.

After that, update NUM_START_LOCATIONS at the bottom of race.h to match the number of locations.

If a race isn't listed on this list, they will fall back to the default (the current starting location).
« Last Edit: 27, April 2014, 02:44:30 by _people_ »
-- _people_ :)

smacky

« Reply #48 on: 27, April 2014, 13:50:22 »
I really don't want to piss on anyone's fireworks. In the end it's good if people are actually fired up enough to do something, within reason whatever it is.

But -- and I haven't been following this thread too closely because we all know my views on guilds don't gel too well with the majority wrong view -- I hate the idea of different starting locations for different races (and especially -- dunno if this thread has led to, or maybe come from, this yet -- racial planes). Although I do like the idea of potentially multiple start locations in general (as "You can even set some locations to be more common").

A problem with a lot of this recent discussion is that it's already been done -- admittedly in the MM boards, not public ones, and a year or three ago. I know forum search doesn't  work and that's really crippling in situations like this, but MMs ought to be familiar with what's already been decided before restarting the whole process (for example, this particular idea is already covered by 'regions' and segregating the player base on racial grounds doesn't make sense from a Daimonin world or plot point of view, nor from a reality point of view [the reality being we have barely a handful of players online at any time and already a much too wide gameworld -- I'm all for aiming high but we're at least a couple of hundred players short of the point where we need this sort of separation]).

Lastly, @_people_: Please commit such code changes in the next week as it's probably going to be easier for me to incorporate them into my latest 0.10.7 than the other way round.

clobber

« Reply #49 on: 27, April 2014, 15:07:53 »
Firstly, thanks _person_! I'll remove my dodgy instancing script from GH on local now :)

Smacky, mate, you're obsessed with fireworks. Thus why your honourary birthday remains Guy Fawkes night (just sharing this because I keep forgetting :()

So you hate the idea of different starting locations - fair enough, but I don't think that these areas qualify for whole different regions. As it is, it's the same base and the only difference is the scenery. You get taught the same stuff in the same way before being taken on a ship to GH to the normal starting point. It's more of a tutorial/intro to game world and story. 2x1 mapset, very basic and not very interesting - but as I wrote a while ago - more help implementing this into a playable area would have been appreciated as my imagination is fairly low atm. I actually like your idea of being taken to different starting locations for actually beginning the game (like how troops get drafted in RL) but that can wait for now/next 4-5 months.

I'm conscious a lot of the discussion already exists and have read through a large proportion of it - most of it done before the implementation of current guilds. They were working with a different game in some respects, and an altogether (with the exception of a few) community, therefore I'm more inclined to work with what our current few players want (especially as I've already done a load of work for it and there is nil work done for the prior :p). As always, with any change in Daimonin, if it's poorly recieved it can be easily changed or even removed. As it's a whole lot of content and I'm prone to creating bugs and crashing servers, I'm also going to ensure that I get it tested locally and by players on dev server and respond to feedback and keep them all involved.

With regards to being too spread out -  I think it's kinda covered above. It's a tiny area with adaptations made to places that already exist. The majority of it is scripts. I don't anticipate any content changes or code changes is going to lead to a sudden influx of players; at this point I think that relies upon a touch screen 2D client or cross platform 3D client due to the change in nature of gaming... but that's a separate area in which none of us are that experienced, so I'll leave it.

I hope this helps with some of your concerns? I've tried to be specific but it seemed a bit like just a general moan at guilds, so IDK really how much can be addressed without removing them a crucifying all the Guild Masters...
Posted by Clobber

Collector Of Burnt out torches, 0 and Counting.

,-.  ___ ,-.
 \/ .   .  \ / 
(___O___)
 /  \      /   )
 ( ||       || )
  000     000
Woof, Woof!

Quote from: Longir
I use caution, fear is a distraction

smacky

« Reply #50 on: 27, April 2014, 17:41:17 »
Damn! Now my fireworks are a bit soggy (but only a bit)...

... I don't think that these areas qualify for whole different regions. As it is, it's the same base and the only difference is the scenery. You get taught the same stuff in the same way before being taken on a ship to GH to the normal starting point. It's more of a tutorial/intro to game world and story. 2x1 mapset, very basic and not very interesting - but as I wrote a while ago - more help implementing this into a playable area would have been appreciated as my imagination is fairly low atm. I actually like your idea of being taken to different starting locations for actually beginning the game (like how troops get drafted in RL) but that can wait for now/next 4-5 months.

I see. Sort of.

Quote
I'm conscious a lot of the discussion already exists and have read through a large proportion of it - most of it done before the implementation of current guilds. They were working with a different game in some respects, and an altogether (with the exception of a few) community, therefore I'm more inclined to work with what our current few players want (especially as I've already done a load of work for it and there is nil work done for the prior :p). As always, with any change in Daimonin, if it's poorly recieved it can be easily changed or even removed. As it's a whole lot of content and I'm prone to creating bugs and crashing servers, I'm also going to ensure that I get it tested locally and by players on dev server and respond to feedback and keep them all involved.

Well that's all true (and :) for reading the old stuff). But also the guilds implementation is a good example of the kind of development process we need to avoid. Without intending to blame anyone in particular or sound too elitist (that is absolutely not what Dai is about), it was done in the way it was because the devteam at that time were too busy butting heads to actually think and plan properly and it was coded with too much wishful idealogical 'wouldn't it be nice if...' thinking and too little technical knowledge about how the server actually works or insight into how it would actually play. Which resulted in unsatisfactory gameplay and unnecessary bugs and dev headaches.

So yes,things (this example) can be adapted, changed, or removed. That's part of the fun of devving. But only to a point. At some point redoing what wasn't done very well before becomes tedious.

For similar reasons we need to stick to the script to some extent. Of course the community needs to be involved and that does change over time, but there are also core ideas and implementations -- some of which are not yet fully realised so may appear trivial or invisible to players -- just because something was 'only' discussed 2 years ago doesn't necessarily mean nil work has been done on it.

Still, this thread does sound to be (potentially) producing something positive.

clobber

« Reply #51 on: 01, May 2014, 15:25:32 »
As you've probably gathered I've been having issues, making it very hard to test things locally.

I've just had to reinstall the mapmaker because it stopped recognising some archetypes (I think because I was fiddling with them when the server wouldn't recognise it). That also means that I have a working version of local, but I believe it doesn't do any of the funky modular things :s Frustrating!!

Once I've figured out why codeblocks is being a pain in the butt, I should be back on course.
Posted by Clobber

Collector Of Burnt out torches, 0 and Counting.

,-.  ___ ,-.
 \/ .   .  \ / 
(___O___)
 /  \      /   )
 ( ||       || )
  000     000
Woof, Woof!

Quote from: Longir
I use caution, fear is a distraction

_people_

« Reply #52 on: 14, June 2014, 18:43:36 »
I've just committed this to trunk as apparently the commit didn't work properly last time.
-- _people_ :)

clobber

« Reply #53 on: 12, September 2014, 16:56:52 »
I've decided to dumb it down and get this in place before adding some of the other things. Right now I'm focussing on content only (sorry, Smacky) and adding the spe****t guilds. I've updated it to the point now that merc, wiz and priest guilds are ready to go (with the exception of 2 mercenary quests). Kinda phase 1 will be complete when thoe two quests are done. Then phase 2 is the battlemage, palladin and divine sorcery guilds and 3 is the spe****ms (barbarian, ninja etc) - I'm leaving them 'til last to see what comes out of persons combat balancing, because it'd be great to get some new skills that they could use e.g. punch additions (knuckledusters kinda thing), maybe have speed working in a better way for ninjas

I think I overcomplicated it with incorporating races and it made me just not want to work on it all. I have races down on my future TODO list, but at the minute, it's lower priority. Maybe phase 4. More likely phase 7...
Posted by Clobber

Collector Of Burnt out torches, 0 and Counting.

,-.  ___ ,-.
 \/ .   .  \ / 
(___O___)
 /  \      /   )
 ( ||       || )
  000     000
Woof, Woof!

Quote from: Longir
I use caution, fear is a distraction

_people_

« Reply #54 on: 13, September 2014, 00:56:50 »
Yeah, I frequently find myself trying to implement 100 cool ideas into one feature and get distracted and never get things done...
-- _people_ :)

clobber

« Reply #55 on: 15, September 2014, 15:08:29 »
So phase one is done.

Please can someone (ideally more than 1 person) go onto Dev and test out the new quests. They start in GH (Merc, Mage and Priest). The more mages can be found in the mountains. More priests in Stonehaven Village. More mercs in Stonehaven Castle. Then after you've done those, there's all three guilds in Stoneglow.

Please can you have a go at every quest, and firstly check that it's working. Tell me here if there are any bugs. Then I need you also to, please, give feedback on how easy the progression is to follow, whether the rewards are suitable for the players level, whether it feels more even than before and whether there are any ways to improve them (maps, scripts, story whatever).

Big big pretty please :) then we can decide whether to pop these on main now or leave them until the other bits are done.
Posted by Clobber

Collector Of Burnt out torches, 0 and Counting.

,-.  ___ ,-.
 \/ .   .  \ / 
(___O___)
 /  \      /   )
 ( ||       || )
  000     000
Woof, Woof!

Quote from: Longir
I use caution, fear is a distraction

Shroud

« Reply #56 on: 15, September 2014, 17:00:59 »
I'm unsure if it's dev specific or not but after I complete cashin's quest path turns black, some parts are blocked and I can't physically leave GH. Is that normal?

Looks like it is and I need to do quests after talking to lothar

EDIT: Seems that magic bullet quest is glitched. I get stuck and couldn't go past first bit of dungeon nor could I leave
EDIT2: As magic bullet quest cannot be done, I can't leave GH so I can't test it
« Last Edit: 15, September 2014, 17:09:47 by Shroud »
Doesn't matter, you'd die anyway. ;D Shroud's a hacker. After many hours of deep thought I have came to that conclusion.

clobber

« Reply #57 on: 15, September 2014, 17:16:00 »
I've never encountered the inability to leave GH. I thought it was more a suggestion from Lothar...

Huh, clearly something else is going on here. I haven't touched these maps or arches in my latest commits and reboot... I'll delve a little deeper.

So what has happened is that the fmasks for the grass have turned into 'stone walls' and 'ruins' for whatever reason. And then the floor has just decided to disappear on one of them. Perhaps Joeshmo has done something strange with his facemasks...
« Last Edit: 15, September 2014, 17:30:01 by clobber »
Posted by Clobber

Collector Of Burnt out torches, 0 and Counting.

,-.  ___ ,-.
 \/ .   .  \ / 
(___O___)
 /  \      /   )
 ( ||       || )
  000     000
Woof, Woof!

Quote from: Longir
I use caution, fear is a distraction

Shroud

« Reply #58 on: 15, September 2014, 17:26:33 »
right, so it's not a feature then? I assumed Lothar was being a bit more persuasive. I think it's also applied to dungeon with MB quest so you can't reach more or ladder and need to leave with /stuck

P.S. All quests and npcs otherwise worked ok that I could reach. Also I'll note that altar could be placed in a more obvious/accessible location as I suspect a lot of noobs will miss it

P.P.S. Joeshmo has changed grass on main server that might be related
« Last Edit: 15, September 2014, 17:30:45 by Shroud »
Doesn't matter, you'd die anyway. ;D Shroud's a hacker. After many hours of deep thought I have came to that conclusion.

clobber

« Reply #59 on: 15, September 2014, 17:35:50 »
Just looking into the grass changes now :) If that doens't work, I'll try a reboot as all the files look like they should be working.

Oh, actually, I'm not getting any error messages in game, so I'll have a quick check of the server logs.

EDIT: Nothing telling in either set of logs or trunk arches, or joeshmo's unofficial.
« Last Edit: 15, September 2014, 17:44:22 by clobber »
Posted by Clobber

Collector Of Burnt out torches, 0 and Counting.

,-.  ___ ,-.
 \/ .   .  \ / 
(___O___)
 /  \      /   )
 ( ||       || )
  000     000
Woof, Woof!

Quote from: Longir
I use caution, fear is a distraction

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