Alright, it's time we get some of this on the record. Combat atm is either too easy or too hard, depending on what level you're at. There are many variables in this which I feel should be addressed. Please leave discussion related to drops or dungeons out of this thread, and perhaps put them in a different one.

My strategy on balancing combat involves five steps:

Strikethrough text = things I've finished.

• Balance the level-based growth line so that it's not too easy at high levels and not too hard at low levels. This is probably the easiest step of the five.
• Boost the usefulness of warriors so that people don't despise playing as them.
• Even mages out with the warriors. After step 2, warriors may either be better or worse than mages. If warriors are better, buff mages to match them. If warriors are worse, nerf mages to match them.
• Adjust mobs to fit the new combat styles.
• Make minor combat uses such as punch, throw, and archery more useful.

Step 1: Balance the level-based growth

#define LEVEL_DAMAGE_MULTIPLIER (0.25f)
#define LEVEL_DAMAGE(__l_) ((((float)(__l_)) * LEVEL_DAMAGE_MULTIPLIER) + 1.0f)

This is one of the most important snippets in the first step. This is used for both players and non-players. Here's a break-down of what this code means.

The amount of damage that is dealt is first calculated based on stats, critical hit, etc. Then it's passed through this function. This function (well, macro) will return a number to multiply the original damage by to find the damage dealt at this level.

A less tangled version is:
LEVEL_DAMAGE = ((level) * 0.25) + 1

So let's say a level 1 puncher with no gear, all stats = 12 hits a level 1 mob with no resists or other modifiers for 5 damage. A level 10 under the same conditions will hit for ((10 * 0.25) + 1) * 5, which makes 17.5 (which will be rounded). A level 110 with the same conditions will hit 142.5 on that level 1 mob.

Now with all stats in effect this will end up being a lot different. When it boils down to mobs versus players, level 110 players can kill level 110 mobs more easily than a level 1 can kill a level 1. It's actually rather difficult for the first 15 levels. So, what can we do (presumably adding more variables at least) to this formula to make it even? I'm thinking that mobs should have a separate multiplier. An excuse for this is that they've been enchanted and/or trained by Moroch. This will probably take some trial & error.

Step 2: Changes to melee combat

First of all, the age-old question of warrior vs. mage is currently a no-brainer. Mages win in B5, hands-down. Why be a warrior? The answer to that is the same as the answer to the "Why use punch/throw?" question. The answer? "Because I've run out of levels to make in other skills."

There are two ways to solve this: Buff up PH or weaken MA. I think players have generally shot down the "weaken MA" idea. So let's try it another way. Buff up warriors. How?

• Nobody uses them because they seem weaker than 2h or 1h. So we still have to decide on a solution to that problem. See the thread I linked to for discussion.
• Too slow to get EXP? Mages have AoE attacks which can be very powerful allies in dungeons like CS or Maus. What can we do to speed up killing for warriors?
• Add secondary skills to enhance melee attacks. This basically involves adding a secondary timer. Then when players use a secondary skill, their primary will be altered to hit maybe twice in a row, twice as powerfully, etc. Then the secondary timer will go up so that players can't overuse secondary skills.

Step 3: Changes to magical combat

• One problem I see is storms. Yes, they're useful. But it's nearly impossible to miss unless you're blind. And if you can run fast enough, no mob can ever hit you. So run around a huge room an shoot 10-20 mobs at a time until you level up and become even more untouchable. What are some things we can do to help mobs not be so defenseless against storms?
• Change how Spell Fumble and Casting Penalty work. See this thread and page 4 of this topic.

Step 4: Changes to mob strength

Well it gets easier from here, I hope. We just need to adjust mobs to fit the new players. Most likely we'll need to tinker with stats, raising or lowering as needed.  Another thing that should happen is that mobs should be adjusted more based on environment, background, and type. A mob raised in a desert should be resistant to heat. A mob raised on a glacier should be resistant to cold. A guard of Moroch's house should be better-suited for the job than a slime that attacks Stoneglow.  I'll go more in-depth on mob balance when the time comes.

Step 5:Changes to minor skills

This really can't be hit on too hard yet. We'll have to wait for steps 1-4 to be completed first. Any suggestions here are still welcome, though.

One thing I can think of now, though, is Sonix's "knuckleduster" idea. That could work nicely.

Conclusion

Alright. Now I've some steps laid down for us to use. Or we could make a new path entirely. The decisions lie with the community. I encourage anyone to propose changes to this list. Atm our dev team is very small, and we can't get a lot done by ourselves. It's very important that players and devs alike contribute to this thread so that we can work out a solution beneficial to everybody. So let the discussion begin.

I think those can be accomplished semi-easily. I'll see what I can do with this after others add input to this.

There are 2 options I can think of for those sorts of attacks. We can either attach them to the weapon and have some sort of quest or something add them as needed, or we can attach them to the player as skills. Option 1 would be easier IMO, but then that leaves issues with punch. However, making these attacks as skills would be difficult primarily because they can be overused. And adding a long timer to these wouldn't be good because of the new actiontimer stuff. Any suggestions as to how to make these skills work around the actiontimer?

EDIT: Joe just suggested in-game that we may have a primary skill timer, and a secondary. So while primary may be impact weapons, etc., secondary may be double hit/fury attack/etc. The primary and secondary have no relation to each other.

With punch could we add a second attack so you could say you hit with a 1 2 as some boxers do in rl boxing?  but add the second attack as a % chance of say an uppercut +20% Jab std damage and glace -40% damage?  just for sake of variety and giving punch a bit more umph.

2nd hit should average slightly less dam as most cannot hit same str with either hand.

my idea being it should be like the leech attack on skulldruj and happen automatically when the 1st attack is made.

Cutin2

I like idea #1, I'll see what I can do. #2 is kinda iffy. Although it's a good idea, it makes it a bit difficult to use archery. Not to mention, we also have sling stones and crossbow bolts to balance. And I'm not sure about #3 either, because chaos and weaponmagic, or even spells vs prayers, don't have much to do with each other.

Now, I'm wondering about step #1. The soon-to-come guild system will ensure LLP's are no longer struggling to survive. And HLP's are limited a bit as well. So we'll test that out once I iron out the bugs and move on to step 2.

First of all
All of you have great ideas and such

Secondly
@_people_ i like your opinion

Finally
I think that we should let the mobs level up as you fight them

EDIT: That way we know, for example, Now we know how this mob got to this level, see what i'm saying?

I've always said that mages and priests should have crummy gear.  They need a tank to defend them, but should be able to out-damage that tank, or heal many allies continuously throughout a battle.

and?

As a statement of fact: we don't live in a vacuum.

As someone who HAS (past tense) played WoW, mages can level up and solo for most- if not all- of the game.  The way this works is by killing nearly anything other than bosses before they actually get to you.  Mages do THAT MUCH damage.  This ability takes all of a mages mana though, and then you sit for the next 30 seconds regenerating that mana.

PH-er style characters on the other hand can't take down enemies as fast, but it is much less of an effort, and overall time per kill is less.

Just because mage can't take more than 1 hit doesn't make them "forced into a group."  It makes their experience different.

People like to make this into "your trying to destroy a class," or "x class is too strong," or "we can't play anymore."  What the truth of it is more closely related to:

"You won't be able to play like you always have been able to."

Its simply a difference experience.