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Author Topic:  v0.10.7 development  (Read 22415 times)

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Shroud

« Reply #15 on: 17, April 2014, 19:08:33 »
I don't think so. Possibly only one that could be problematic is post office keys but I'm unsure if they're in an instanced map anyway (I've no idea what happens to mail after a server reset anyway...)

A few keys like ones to GT and FT are very hard to get but that would probably only give them a higher market value. I don't think there is any lethal combination of keys and to be honest if a noob is rich enough they can get key via a party anyway since I used very same method to get keys on my alts using main to do fighting
Doesn't matter, you'd die anyway. ;D Shroud's a hacker. After many hours of deep thought I have came to that conclusion.

smacky

« Reply #16 on: 18, July 2014, 13:40:42 »
Good news! I just compiled and logged into 0.10.7 for the first time in 2 months and everything seemed fine.

This is worth posting about because I spent those 2 months ripping out and rewriting some pretty fundamental code so it's good that it still works and now I'm back on course for proper development.

I need to do local testing, code tidying, and commenting this week and then upload to dev.

Joe

« Reply #17 on: 19, July 2014, 20:20:52 »
Woot!!  Huraah, nice work!  Can't wait to see bug free.   :)
Whoever said "Out of sight, out of mind" never had a spider disappear in their bedroom.

_people_

« Reply #18 on: 21, July 2014, 01:18:31 »
@Smacky: Have you done much in 0.10.7 with channels? ATM there are a few bugs (gmasters randomly get removed from all channels, adding players to a channel twice removes them from the channel object but duplicates their player_channel which means they get messages 2x but can't send, server crashes when kicking players who aren't on a channel [see previous bug]). The whole system is handled oddly.

I'd like to work on a small rewrite but don't want to tread on any of your work.
-- _people_ :)

smacky

« Reply #19 on: 21, July 2014, 11:51:47 »
I'll put in my long-promised rewrite of the channel system... this month? I haven't, AFAICR, specifically touched channels in 0.10.7 (or really in 0.10.6) for this reason.

smacky

« Reply #20 on: 22, July 2014, 16:32:10 »
While the code dev is going well, it's still going to take two weeks. So here's something to get players involved in dev:

0.10.7 opens up the 4th dimension! (Dai has long had the first 2, flirted with the 3rd but it's boring, so lets go to the 4th.)

Since some time in 0.10.5 the gameworld has officially been stuck in a year long time loop. This is part of Moroch's assault. In game mechanics terms it is our excuse for why players don't age, nothing really changes, etc.

The plan was to allow time travel within -- and to some extent beyond -- that year. 0.10.7 does that.

Essentially each map node (means basically when you enter a map via an exit) is loaded with a certain offset in game time. As tiled maps in this node (ie, you walk horizontally over the maps) are loaded, these get the same offset.

Example: You are on the surface at time offset 0. You apply an exit to a dungeon. This exit has an offset of 100 (so 100 hours in the future) so   the dungeon node is loaded with that time offset. You progress horizontally through that dungeon and each tiled map is loaded also with that 100 offset.

If someone else enters the node with a different offset, theirs is overridden; the map is already in memory with, in the example above, a 100 offset.

But if someone entered a different part of the node via an exit with a different offset, that map, and therefore all tiled maps the loaded, would have the different offset. When the two players meet at a tiled map, that map will be loaded at one offset and then the other offset will come along. At this point we have a time warp.

Example: The above dungeon actually has two entrances. In the previous example the player entered through entrance A. Another player now enters through B at the other end of the dungeon. B has an offset of -100 (100 hours in the past). So he causes maps to be loaded at -100. At some point the players maps meet, causing a map loaded at one offset, say 100 to ask to be reloaded at the other offset, -100. This triggers a time warp (which ripples through all the tiled maps -- ie, every loaded map in the dungeon).

Two things where input would be good: 1. A new calendar: the current one is nice for what it is, but IMO is too spe****t and geeky for new players to 'get' without effort. We need to abandon the 3 days per parweek, 3 parweeks per week, 3 weeks per month idea and all the silly names (days being Foodein and months being Os-foo) and go for something more relateable to RL (ie, 7ish days per week, 4 weeks per month -- names like Day of foo, Month of foo) -- not dissimilar to the old CF-era calendar but perhaps with names more related to Dai). 2. Effects of a time warp: these should be significant and interesting but balanced. Both advantageous but (mostly) disadvantageous ones. Eg, all mobs on the affected maps get tougher/weaker for a bit. I want lots of suggestions so a time warp will cause a random effect (then later we can add a Warp Control artefact which can skew warps to the good/bad end of the spectrum). Don't worry about technical issues, I'll figure those out. I want player views on 'it''d be cool if...'


Shroud

« Reply #21 on: 22, July 2014, 18:47:36 »
Well I'll give my thoughts.

Firstly I'm not really that keen on 4th dimension idea. Reason is that I'm unsure if it actually adds anything and that I'm unsure exactly what the point of it is since either map is identical in which case it makes no difference or it's slightly different in which case everyone would go in easiest entrance.

From a puzzle perspective I suppose you could do something in past to open up an area in future. I think zelda: ocarina of time is probably main example off top of my head where that kind of thing happens.

Time warps to me seems a bit illogical. Logically I would assume that if someone went to a -100 entrance that they would be in same location as someone in +100 entrance after waiting for 200 hours and if they're in same location but in a different time then they occupy different locations in 4 dimensional planes and so never meet. There are quite a few headaches and paradox concepts such as killing your own grandfather etc. Most logical interpretation would be that "Past" occurs as it does while "Future" can proceed like a ghost that is unable to interfere with physical objects. Depending on how it works you could then require teamwork between players in past a present and some enemies could only be eliminated if attacked from different time periods.

As far as calendar goes I don't have faintest idea what days or months mean. If it was something logical like Firsday, Seconday, Thirday, Fourthday, Fifthday etc I could work it out but foo doesn't mean anything to me

P.S. Would it not be simpler to have "time warp" effects be applied to portals that in turn can be entrances to dungeons and then player can have random buffs/debuffs applied?
Doesn't matter, you'd die anyway. ;D Shroud's a hacker. After many hours of deep thought I have came to that conclusion.

smacky

« Reply #22 on: 22, July 2014, 19:53:19 »
* smacky will not be brought down by Shroud.

Well remember the first stage of this is necessarily limited (for example your limited to the looping year -- in future for example a quest might require you to travel centuries into the future to retrieve an object which you then use decades in the past to counteract some devastating aspect of Moroch's initial assault.

Or yes, like the Zelda games. But mucking about with time is much trickier in a MM game than a SP game because you can never say OK, this is when we are; at any point another player could drop in and screw things up. Unless we went down a sort of each player occupies his own time instance. But this would eat memory (potentially you'd have players * memory being used) and IMO is a rubbish concept anywsy (kind of defeats the purpose of a MMOG).

Hence time warp concept. I don't understand your PS. Try different words.

Foo is just a placeholder. ATM all days end with -dein and all months a prefixed with Os-. I'll expand this later.

Shroud

« Reply #23 on: 22, July 2014, 20:12:00 »
Well can't we already get maps in far past or far present. You just get a NPC that says here is a portal to 600 years ago and you're there. It's not as if you can't get quest items from Dungeon A to work in Dungeon B so I'm unsure where problem lies.

As far as zelda style concepts it could theoretically mean you need team work so one person works on it in past while other does it in present/future. Well what you described as time instances is part of the reason why I wasn't keen on idea ;)

As far as PS goes I was thinking that whole time warp concept was in a way unnecessarily complicated. Idea of tracking player's various time phases etc seems like it eats up memory and I'm unsure if anything other than timewarps will be introduced. In that case isn't it simpler to have it so that timewarp's effects aren't trigger through people in different time phases meeting but simply having it as a potentially random effect of portals in general or entrance to dungeon.

Looking at it from a mapmaker's perspective I don't think it adds anything new to potential scope of maps compared to what is possible now. Any effect that requires changing map layout would be definition require it to be manually done by mapmaker and any stat alteration is something that could be applied anywhere. Having said that I'm sure smacky can see problem to a greater depth than I can so I shall bow to his superior wisdom
Doesn't matter, you'd die anyway. ;D Shroud's a hacker. After many hours of deep thought I have came to that conclusion.

smacky

« Reply #24 on: 22, July 2014, 21:26:17 »
Well OK, you've made some worthwhile points. Taking the gist of your first and last paragraphs, yes, in fact a lot of this can be done, or near to it, unoffifcially on a map/dungeon/quest-by-map/dungeon/quest basis using clever maps/scripts/even prose. But this provides a global and consistent (and ultimately simpler) official interface.

I understand your PS I think. To me it sounds like a sort of poor mans approach to introducing the 'time warp' concept to the game simply for the sake of introducing the concept. Which is not my intention.

Anyway, lets hear some more people. TBH if the consensus is overwhelmingly negative that's fine; we won't do it. I think that'll be a shame because IMO it means we're saying no to an idea before it's even had a chance to go anywhere. OTOH if nobody likes it to begin with, it never will go anywhere, whatever potential I think it might have.

Shroud

« Reply #25 on: 22, July 2014, 22:29:33 »
right, so to simplify it rather than 4th dimensional travel it's more a built in method to allow map modifications and multiple instances to exist in a semi overlapping state. Presumably way it would work is with a few extra variables so that in mapmaker you could for example set past=true, future = false and timewarp concept is to have it so that if mobs only exist in past or future then you could randomly scramble them into a hybrid form or even have a mobless or completely filled dungeon?

In that case it's natural transition stage from an instanced map to a public map. Is that a closer interpretation of what you plan to do and I've simply gone off on a tangent with an unhealthy focus towards "time" concept?

EDIT: Wouldn't real potential of this idea not be with time but more in a scenario where you have several unstable parallel planes. For example imagine a gap between dimensions or a place with several levels of existence (e.g. let's say 9 circles of hell). It could even be a map of illusions that then gets condensed to reality.
« Last Edit: 22, July 2014, 22:36:54 by Shroud »
Doesn't matter, you'd die anyway. ;D Shroud's a hacker. After many hours of deep thought I have came to that conclusion.

Joe

« Reply #26 on: 22, July 2014, 23:13:21 »
Some cool features that would make it interesting for me:

- Chance to find new rare random drops that can't be found in other time lines.

-Possibly see other characters in a different time line than you as a ghost or shadow, but still able to interact.

-Benefits in grouping with players in different time lines, such as exp bonus.

-Mobs that only spawn when we have a player from the past and future together.

-Possible double damage if in group with players from past and future.

-Ability to unlock new places otherwise unaccessible.

- Need two or more players from another time in order to complete complicated quests.  One player in the past may throw a switch which makes a bridge to cross for the future player, then that player can cross and pull another switch so the player from the past can get across.

There's more potential to this, just takes a bit of imagination.  Sounds like fun though.  :)
Whoever said "Out of sight, out of mind" never had a spider disappear in their bedroom.

smacky

« Reply #27 on: 23, July 2014, 09:47:37 »
@Shroud: Forget the instance-to-public map transition. That's kind of what time  warps are to avoid. The two map types still exist, as now (as do unique maps but they exist out of time entirely so are not subject to any of this).

For the most part mappers can ignore this -- on the one hand probably the potential for time warps, etc in GH kobold dungeon is unnecessarily complex and distracting to new/low level players. On the other, much can be semi-automated anyway.

Probably the only difference in mapmaker will be a new tab on exits where you can fiddle with time offsets, etc. 90% of the time you'll leave this alone.

Your edit is perhaps a good way to describe it, yes. It's a way to bring that planar instability into (bits of) the existing planes. We add a feature to existing maps with no to minimal changes. If we decide it's a crap idea it can be turned off by simply not defining a flag in the server code.

@Joe: Tkkhose things are possible, some more complex than others so will take time to implement. Any 0.10.7 version is unlikely to see much in the way of grouping features or complex quests or even interactions between timelines. But its about having something to build on.

smacky

« Reply #28 on: 06, August 2014, 23:25:57 »
There is a player only flag which can be set on objects; then only player can enter that square. Is anyone familiar with it?

ATM it can be set on any object which seems to me nonsensical. Surely it only makes sense on floors? Any examples where it is used on non-floors?

_people_

« Reply #29 on: 06, August 2014, 23:30:40 »
I can't think of any. In theory it could be placed on regular scenery objects like a barrel or whatever but any mob that's roughly player-sized should be able to fit over whatever those objects are.

I don't think mobs can walk on teleporters. Those might rely on player-only?
-- _people_ :)

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