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Author Topic: Drops  (Read 87791 times)
Ellwoodblues
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« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2012, 05:51:32 pm »

Code: [Select]
#
# Missile weapons:
#
# Can be range +/-.
#
# FLAVOUR  RANGE+ RANGE-
# inferior     TODO     TODO   
# lesser       TODO     TODO   
# small       TODO     TODO   
# medium   TODO     TODO   
# large       TODO     TODO   
# greater     TODO    TODO   
# superior    TODO     TODO

In the above snippet from Smaky's code block, does the "range+/range-" point to an effect of the damage of the ranged weapon or the actual range of the fired projectile?

As a player can only see for a limited distance, a better stat to modify for ranged weapons would be attack speed (as a better quality/magically enchanted might mean a faster reload time), leave any damage bonuses to the ammunition.


On another note, the tables could be expanded to give names of negative connotation as well.

Code: [Select]
# Weapons (including missile weapons and ammo):
#
# Can be primary stat +/-, secondary stat +/-, health indicator +/-, attack +.
#
# FLAVOUR  PSTAT+ PSTAT- SSTAT+ SSTAT- HIND+  HIND-  ATTAK+
# scared          0      -1         +1       0       +5%    -5%    +5%   
# ugly             0      -2         +2       0       +10%   -10%   +10%   
# twisted         0      -3         +3       0        +15%   -15%   +15%   
# disfigured      0      -4         +4       0         +20%   -20%   +20%   
# mangled       0       -5        +5       0         +25%   -25%   +25%   
# terrible         0       -6        +6       0         +30%   -30%   +30%   
# horrible         0       -7        +7       0          +35%   -35%   +35%

The above example is a table for weapons where a primary stat is always negative while the secondary is always positive (even if not the opposite).  These names might give some added role play possibilities while giving some weapon stats that are useful if used strategically. 

The idea is to have an item with a bonus and a negative in stats that could be seen as opposites.  Example:
Disfigured Tanto; -4 (Cha) +4(Str), "...blades forged in the sacrificial pits of Dis, by the unholy acolytes of dark elder gods, infused with a dark strength that corrupts the weilder to the core..."
smacky
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« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2012, 06:35:17 pm »

Range = distance.

You have a point, though range makes more sense if ever we implement smooth movement/targetted firing.

I think there's potential for both.
_people_
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« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2012, 01:31:29 am »

IMO, but leave the players to decide this:

Possible items for each stat:

STR:
DEX:
CON:
INT:
WIS:
POW:
CHA:
DAM:
WC:
AC:
speed: rings, boots
stealth: rings, mails, shoes
resists: helm, mail, shoulder, bracer, pants, boots, rings, ammies, girdle, shield, cloak, gauntlets
attacks: rings, gauntlets, melee weapon, ammo

I'll finish this list later, feel free to add/modify it.
smacky
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« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2012, 12:26:50 pm »

That is a sensible way to do it.
zrubavel
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« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2012, 01:51:39 pm »

Oh man how can I post anything if we are going to be "sensible" about this? :)
any two of my cents:
A. this would be a good time to address the issue ph'rs have with "Reflect Spells" ammies and come up with an equivalent that does not fail on close proximity- see here.

B.I would like the system to be able to very rarely randomly produce a powerful'ish item that no one has ever seen before, and would most likely be one of a kind. I.e. if the stars align just right you could conceivably get a weapon that has more dps than a hallo weapon just from a random drop (not much more just a bit more). Or a crazy multi stat ring could be produced that is the rival of or better than RoY and RoSt (a ring that hasd +5st +2 damage+ 5% hp regen for example). But these would be really rare and random. I think this would add to the possibility of people having  unique and personal gear set ups. (i.e. not every one has a combination of the same 3-4 rings the best or 2nd best armor, a hallo weapon etc).
smacky
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« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2012, 05:17:55 pm »

A. Yes.

B. No. Qualified: that is what enchantment scrolls are for. But you don't just randomly get a very lucky drop. Rather you use your skill and judgement to enchant an item in the best way possible with the scrolls you have acquired over time.
clobber
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« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2012, 06:45:27 pm »

I agree with Zrub in the respect that the best (normal, before scrolls and whatever else) items should be dropped rather than events.
smacky
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« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2012, 07:43:43 pm »

I don't really understand what you mean by 'dropped rather than events',

But going with what I assume you mean, technically it is a bit difficult to put such randomness as Zrub describes into drops.

Not impossible at all but this is not the way the arch/artifacts system works. Archetypes are called archetypes for a reason. They should provide a definite absolute base set of attributes for a given object. Artifacts exploit this to (potentially) allow the object to be de-artifacted back to its base archetype.

This doesn't work if the archetypes themselves have randomness/variation built in. So for Zrub's suggestion we'd actually need N variant archetypes/artifacts for each 'random' mutation; where N would quickly get into the 10s and 100s.

This is the basic problem of (multiple) buffs/debuffs. Once you have buffed an object twice, how do you then remove one buff or even isolate what effects it has? The answer is by each buff adding a buff force and then the code at some point adding up each force, which is the basis of _people_'s system. But this is a reasonable amount of extra work for the server.

Enchantment scrolls get around this by accepting the limitation that a single 'disenchantment' is not possible. It's all or nothing.

Putting technical issues to one side though, it seems to me massively more appealing that players have to consciously choose if and which customisations to add to any given object rather than the luck of the draw deciding the customisation for them. After all, isn't this the very definition of customisation?

Enchanted variations rather than randomly dropped variations also adds a number of gameplay elements.

For example, do you use your level 105 ES on this item_level 95 object or save it? How annoying if you do, then find a 96 ES 5 minutes later.

And soon enough enchanted items will start appearing in auctions. So do you go for this enchanted item, on the basis that you happen to have a stock of ESs which can then be used on it to make it even better?
zrubavel
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« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2012, 09:30:56 pm »

I hear what Smacky is saying...I think not having any experience with Enchantment scrolls and their potential it was hard for me to get away from the current model where getting a luck drop is the basis for everything.
However having said that,is there not the potential that with Enchantment scrolls, drops will be almost meaningless? Certainly the best items will be made,not the result of a luck drop,no?
I am not a particularly lucky person, but despite this,or perhaps because of this, the items that I have enjoyed the most have been one of a kind combo rings (like a mana+92, mana regen+8% ring) that I have found that nobody else has...It wouldnot be the same if I simply decided to take a mana+92 ring and add mana regen to it...
Still It think that the "boni" of the enchantment scroll system may outweigh this "malus" :)
ThePlaneskeeper
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« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2012, 10:21:04 pm »

I don't know much about the system that you guys are thinking of implementing, but I do think that as long as an item can only be enchanted once, and only once (and then become an ego item?) that it would make a very nice addition to the game as part of an item creation system.
clobber
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« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2012, 10:39:29 pm »

I take it that those which start off better can be buffed the same amount to higher stats than those with lower stats to begin?

Sorry, that sounds confusing so I'll make an example :\

If I had a horrible iron bec du corbin of lesser cold, and a perfect iron bec du corbin of lesser cold and a load of scrolls, if I applied the same amount of scrolls the each, the first would still be better? And the horrible bec du corbin could not be improved to the same level that the perfect one could be?
smacky
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« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2012, 11:31:09 pm »

Yes. The exact number have yet to be tied down, but essentially an ES will only give a very small bonus, whereas the difference between flavours is larger (or the boni on multiples).

So an inferior fire is fire +5% and a lesser fire is fire +10%. An ES of fire adds only 2%, so an inferior fire needs 3 such ESs to outdo an unenchanted lesser (and then only by 1%). Given that each ES raises the item's item_level and has a (small) chance to destroy it, enchanting crappy items won't make nice drops redundant.
Ellwoodblues
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« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2012, 03:31:29 am »

I have played other games that had some way to create a customized bit of equipment based on things similar to the enchantments that Smacky is describing. 

I really like the enchantment scroll idea. 

@Zrub: Think of it this way, you are going to have to accumulate the scrolls, the item to enchant and (assuming that there is some little bit of randomness) risk a possibility of failure or a weakened enchantment.  The equipment and the scrolls are going to sit in your apartment not being used until you get exactly what you want, exactly like camping for uber equipment. 

The main difference, will be just how long you can hold off enchanting your equipment.  Taking a slightly less uber item now instead of something more uber later (assuming you ever get that last enchanting scroll to really make your equipment extra shiny.) 

_people_
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« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2012, 06:39:18 pm »

I just started rewriting the artifact file in accordance with this. So far I've only done stat weapons and fire/frost/electricity weapons.
smacky
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« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2012, 07:47:33 pm »

Oh OK. We're going to need to use a consistent but different naming convention for these artifacts to distinguish them from the old ones (because if we do it, at least have a live test, in the 0.10 series we'll need to keep the old artifacts in existence even if only the new ones actually drop).

So for example old-style are called, ie robe_sm_con and girdle_major_hp and emerald_flawless. It's fairly consistent.

So new-style should be something like <order #>_<type>_[<flavour #>_]<name>.

So Excalibur would be 1_sword_excalibur, Rhun's cloak would be 2_cloak_rhuns, ring of Storms would be 3_ring_storms, and a ruby of stunning quality would be 4_gem_4_ruby.

IDR exactly tthe conventions for newarch (should be in Daipedia somewhere) but basically such objects should be prefixed/suffixed with item- (or -item) too.
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