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Author Topic:  Couple of things  (Read 511 times)

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Delrisst

« on: 08, January 2022, 21:57:27 »
As I keep coming back to this game, I start to think of suggestions / ideas. Here are a few:

#1 - Are there any plans to put a priest in Illuma? I don't really mind, but it kinda sucks going back to Stoneglow to remove depletion, etc. when you aren't a Priest class.

#2 - What about a repair items skill? That way you can repair items when you are hunting and deep in dungeons...could be very very hard to master and at low levels it barely works. Not sure what it would cost to perform the skill though (gold? some kind of hammer/anvil you need to carry that costs money or drops from particular mobs, etc?) Could even destroy an item at a low chance or something.

#3 - Items or something that decrease the wide range of damage dealt. So, your DPS may be able to hit for 300-380 damage or something, or maybe an even wider range, but maybe there could be items that tighten that range? Or a particular stat on the character.

Thoughts?

_people_

« Reply #1 on: 08, January 2022, 22:12:25 »
1) There is a priest in Illuma. So no, no plans for another one.

2) Self-repair would be nice. IMO it would be best implemented as a trade skill. Depending on the material class you'd need different tools to do so, as well as materials with which to do it.

Trade skills are something I've wanted for some time. I want client GUI for these trade skills. Once the updated client is finished, adding flexible GUI to the client should be pretty easy. But my new client will come after I get the dungeon generator in a good place.

In the meantime we could use /commands for trade skills. Might be something I take a crack at fairly soon, since we've discussed alchemy a bit recently.

3) I have no opinion here. Would be easy enough to implement, though. Currently, you deal anywhere between 70 and 100% of your "max hit".
-- _people_ :)

Delrisst

« Reply #2 on: 08, January 2022, 23:05:07 »
Lol. Guess I have never seen the priest in Illuma.

Yeah the tradeskill thing is great, and alchemy would be fun. Before anyone mentions crafting....id be open to it but please dont do it in a way that makes the awesome random drop system less exciting....

_people_

« Reply #3 on: 09, January 2022, 03:13:43 »
As we discussed in-game, with the upcoming changes to quality/condition repairing items in the field is a fairly high priority. I just implemented portable anvils on my local server.

Currently you must place an anvil on the ground, drop a damaged item on it, mark a nugget, and apply the anvil. This will repair it to its full condition and destroy the nugget.

My intent going forward is to replace tin nuggets with iron nuggets. All metal items are some variant of iron (even IRL steel is just iron with some impurities). Higher iron nugget tiers will repair items by different amounts.

I also intend to add more objects of type NUGGET. These will include "leather scraps", "cloth scraps", and more to encompass all material classes because it's tough to repair a cloth shirt with a piece of iron.

While I think it would make sense to require different anvil types for different materials (tanning rack, loom, etc.) I think for simplicity's sake (and because we have no active artists) all items will be repaired with anvils. Anvils will be able to be purchased by players for some yet-undecided price and will likely deteriorate after each use.

Feedback before I continue down this path? :)
« Last Edit: 09, January 2022, 03:28:24 by _people_ »
-- _people_ :)

Delrisst

« Reply #4 on: 09, January 2022, 08:57:16 »
Nice!

What is in my mind right now is just to make sure it is not easy and just a "gimme" to repair items in the field. I think small nuggets have a small chance of working, where large nuggets maybe have a 50% chance or something. Or, theres the % of working for small to big and smaller nuggets only repair like 3-5 points and large repair 10 points. Thoughts?

Again I also like your idea of the anvil being pretty heavy to make it annoying and again, not just a "gimme."

Delrisst

« Reply #5 on: 09, January 2022, 08:59:10 »
Also maybe each anvil is 1g or 5g and has 10 uses or something. Not sure though what this should look like....need some more input from others.

And maybe repairing is a skill that can be leveled up as its used, helping the chances of repair with each level...like 0.5% more each level or however you already code things like this.
« Last Edit: 09, January 2022, 09:00:49 by Delrisst »

Dolfo

« Reply #6 on: 09, January 2022, 15:39:13 »
Nice ideas here, you can also go for a fixed anvil at special places, players can't pick. And don't forget that anvils are heavy weight. So make players running around with different anvils for different crafting could look strange.

"Where is my anvil for repearing my sword, was it in this pocket or in that pocket?"

Stationary anvils, this is principe in lots of other games. You need to find first a loaction, where you can craft. Perhaps later you can give anvils to apartements? You can replace the idea of anvils, also by cauldrons for crafting potions, for desk for writing scrolls, for weaving tables for repairing clothes and so on.

Also think of the problem, dropping items on ground for crafting, other players can pick this up. On my cooking idea i had the view to make this like a container. You need to put in all your crafting stuff in this one container and then start the crafting somehow.

You can also go for mark a hammer, mark needle and thread, and so on.
« Last Edit: 09, January 2022, 15:54:15 by Dolfo »
Don't believe the shit, you hear in mainstream. Believe your own body. Your body is speaking always the true to you. But you need to understand your body. Hear to your body, not to your ego. And when body is calling to you: "Hey something is wrong!" find the reason(s) for that. Man in White don't go for that, they don't want to heal you. They want earn money and sell you medicine, you should take rest of your life. You are not the patient, you are their customer. Never forget this!

Delrisst

« Reply #7 on: 09, January 2022, 16:41:22 »
I see what you mean Dolfo. However, the idea is to not need to travel anywhere to fixed anvils....unless maybe there are anvils throughout the game and dungeons where it is closer than running back to town.

_people_

« Reply #8 on: 09, January 2022, 17:01:06 »
IMO anvils should be both fixed and portable. I intend to add fixed anvils at blacksmiths so players can repair there, but I'll probably keep the smith NPC's working as they are now until we see how the game adapts to anvils.

I prefer to have portable anvils dropped on the ground to use them. It makes sense from a logical perspective as you wouldn't be able to use one while it's in your backpack. There's also technical constraints at play. Without a dedicated GUI in the client we have no real mechanism by which to let the player select 2 items - the item to be repaired and the nugget. It's important that the player can choose which nugget to use because eventually there will be players who want to min-max this system and won't want to have to shuffle their inventory so that their desired nugget is the first or last nugget in their inventory.

In the future the technical constraints can be avoided with the new client, but at least as an interim I prefer the drop system. Player numbers are currently low enough that it's unlikely that items will be stolen if you're repairing out in a dungeon somewhere. There probably isn't another player in that dungeon.

EDIT: I may look into altering anvils to behave as containers, but with how finicky the container code can be I might not end up doing this. If it can be executed without complications I can make anvils egoitems so there will be no chance for theft.
« Last Edit: 09, January 2022, 17:03:46 by _people_ »
-- _people_ :)

_people_

« Reply #9 on: 17, January 2022, 17:46:22 »
Bit of an issue - with all possible materials that equipment can be made of, I would need 8 different sets of 3 sizes of "nuggets" to allow repairs of all equipment. We don't have the graphics for this - I've scoured our official and unofficial repositories and can only repurpose existing items to use as scrap materials, but it's not quite convincing.

There's also the matter that we'd have to rebalance values of all these materials based on (a) how common equipment of such materials are and (b) how rare the raw materials are. I think nuggets alone work fine for this, but adding more materials would be quite an undertaking.

I think for now it might be best to just allow nuggets to repair anything. Eventually we can get our hands on graphics for other materials and balance prices based on real-world use cases (i.e. the arbitrary value players assign to the ability to repair in the field).
-- _people_ :)

Dolfo

« Reply #10 on: 17, January 2022, 23:57:41 »
Warm and chilly talisman looks good for some crafting materials.
Don't believe the shit, you hear in mainstream. Believe your own body. Your body is speaking always the true to you. But you need to understand your body. Hear to your body, not to your ego. And when body is calling to you: "Hey something is wrong!" find the reason(s) for that. Man in White don't go for that, they don't want to heal you. They want earn money and sell you medicine, you should take rest of your life. You are not the patient, you are their customer. Never forget this!

Shroud

« Reply #11 on: 18, January 2022, 16:15:07 »
I think crafting and repairing are getting mixed together in methodologies.

As far as crafting goes, let's say you have a recipe to make a rare artifact and it requires dozens of different ingredients it can be viable to do if a player aims to collect them and can store them in their apt until they craft it.

On the other hand for repairing if you need to carry dozens or materials plus an anvil it just isn't practical. The more materials that are required the more likely you're to run out of one and if your gear has a bias to one material same ones will always run out assuming equal drop rates for all of them. Probably the most practical solution is to have a dismantling skill where you can break down items into materials (e.g. metal scraps, leather scraps etc) where ideally you have no more than 5 categories and these scraps in turn are material used to repair. This also means that the junk that is thrown away (I personally return them to sender i.e. stuff them in a corpse!) can be recycled.

As a side note I think repairing in the field doesn't have a huge value for me. Item con reductions only affect % defence and weapon dps. As defence has diminishing returns that prevents you going over 100% protections then it means losses at first are also very minimal so a 10% loss in item con will likely only reduce defence by 1-2%. For weapons it's a bigger issue as it can reduce dps by 10-20% as it is directly proportional although in that scenario I simply carry multiple weapons so for example my warrior carries 8 top tier melee weapons and when one starts taking damage I simply switch it out.
Doesn't matter, you'd die anyway. ;D Shroud's a hacker. After many hours of deep thought I have came to that conclusion.

Delrisst

« Reply #12 on: 18, January 2022, 17:11:44 »
Hmmm good point about carrying multiple weapons Shroud. I guess that would only make repairing useful for lower levels who may only have 1 good weapon.

_people_

« Reply #13 on: 18, January 2022, 20:00:07 »
Another change I've made is altering the quality range from 80-87 to (IIRC) 40-80 (normally in increments of 5 IIRC).  Permanent item damage will probably need to be adjusted from this, as well as monster stats since you'll be dealing/resisting roughly half the damage until you get better-constructed items. So when your item deteriorates to the point of potentially permanent damage, you will have already experienced a significant reduction in its performance. This makes in-the-field repairs much more practical.

This won't affect many unique items because historically mappers have largely ignored Q/C (because it's always been inconsequential). I would like to adjust these uniques to follow suit but that'll take some work.

Ultimately the goal here is to have a diverse enough item pool that HLP's need not rely on unique artifacts, and may rarely even find a random drop that's close to, if not better than the best-in-slot unique. There's a delicate balance to be met between unique and non-unique items. I've seen extremes of too many uniques => most are garbage, and not enough uniques => they're only for the elite players.

This is one big advantage to having a separate temporary server with cutting-edge changes - If we botch the game balance, it's much easier to fine-tune it on a server that's been online for a few months rather than a server that's been online for 12 years.

As far as carrying 8 top-tier melee weapons - that's MUDflation that's inevitable when you've got players playing the game for 12 years with no mechanism by which to lose their items.

Regarding craft vs repair and carrying materials - I think that's another reason why using 1 consumable (nuggets) for every item is better. Maybe someday it'll be some magic object instead of nuggets.
-- _people_ :)

Shroud

« Reply #14 on: 18, January 2022, 21:25:20 »
Just a warning but if quality range goes from 80-87 to 40-80 it is likely to make random items in general less useful rather than better in most cases. To start with the average quality would go from 83.5 to 60 meaning around a 30% decrease in performance. I'll also note that item degradation would be twice as fast (along with permanent damage thresholds) for a 40 quality item than an 80 quality item so it full con it would have 50% performance and when taking 20 con damage it would only have 33% of the performance of an equally damaged 80 quality item.

As far as the MUDflation viewpoint goes I'd actually disagree with the cause. The true problem is that once players find all the best gear there is nothing for them to do other than acquire spare sets. If for example players could use resources to improve their gear then they would concentrate their resources into one set of equipment. Normally in RPGs people go up in level and then replace their gear with higher level gear. At the point where it's no longer possible to upgrade gear is when players start getting multiples of same gear instead.
Doesn't matter, you'd die anyway. ;D Shroud's a hacker. After many hours of deep thought I have came to that conclusion.

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