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Author Topic:  Scroll of healing needs Divine Prayers skill  (Read 120 times)

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Dolfo

« on: 30, December 2021, 12:14:34 »
What that? I have managed chereth to sell his first minor healing scroll and tried to use it and then this:

You lack the Divine Prayer skill?

It's the same on running main server, i tested this with a scroll of minor healing and a balm of minor healing.

Balm works, scroll not! I also tested this with a scroll of firestorm level 1, this works to.

I need this scrolls for new players to have a challenging item against this op food. I will keep on looking, where this blocking and message come from.  :o

Edit:

Wow that's cool. I managed to buy a balm of first aid (level1). Description reads i needs level 5 to use? But i can use it with lower level. And yeah i got 5 hp healing. This is surely a challenge to our op food.  :P
« Last Edit: 30, December 2021, 12:40:58 by Dolfo »
Don't believe the shit, you hear in mainstream. Believe your own body. Your body is speaking always the true to you. But you need to understand your body. Hear to your body, not to your ego. And when body is calling to you: "Hey something is wrong!" find the reason(s) for that. School medicine don't go for that, they don't want to heal you. They want earn money and sell you medicine, you should take rest of you life. School medicine is corrupted by bad humans, like politician, like media.

Dolfo

« Reply #1 on: 03, January 2022, 21:26:21 »
Ok, i have now a little better view to this.

As i said before, on all the priest class scrolls there is a check
- first for the devine prayer skill
- and second for the deity
It looked also that on deity check my scroll is gone?

check is in spell_util.c line 606, we could allow scrolls there?
Code: [Select]
        /* if it a prayer, grab the players god - if we have non, we can't cast - except potions */
        if ((spells[type].flags & SPELL_DESC_WIS) &&
            item != spellPotion &&
            (godname = determine_god(op)) == shstr_cons.none)
        {
            ndi(NDI_UNIQUE, 0, op, "You need a deity to cast a prayer!");
            return 0;
        }

For new players this is always a shout. "Why can't i use minor healing scroll?"
Looks like scrolls and balms are both without cooldown blockings.

Minor healing spell is very low healing. Formula is here, spell_effect.c line 245

Code: [Select]
heal = RANDOM_ROLL(level / 2, (level + 3) / 4 * 3) + 5;
/* give bonus or malus to damage depending on if the player/mob is attuned/repelled to that spell path */
heal = (int)(heal * (double)(PATH_DMG_MULT(op, find_spell(spell_type))));

So healing effect is very limited, but it's recastable very fast. Do we allow scrolls for all players, also new players without dp skill and without deity? Do we try higher healing spells. I don't know what damage high level monsters can inflict? But i think they go higher then 100+/- heal. I have seen your rage skill uses a logic to reducing life. We can also try this logic inverted for a heal over time spell? Do we want the same multispam for healing spells, like op food spam? I think some better healing spells, perhaps with higher cooldowns would be interesting?  :o
« Last Edit: 03, January 2022, 21:31:10 by Dolfo »
Don't believe the shit, you hear in mainstream. Believe your own body. Your body is speaking always the true to you. But you need to understand your body. Hear to your body, not to your ego. And when body is calling to you: "Hey something is wrong!" find the reason(s) for that. School medicine don't go for that, they don't want to heal you. They want earn money and sell you medicine, you should take rest of you life. School medicine is corrupted by bad humans, like politician, like media.

_people_

« Reply #2 on: 03, January 2022, 21:44:15 »
IMO requiring a deity for anything related to the Minor Healing prayer is sensible.

Prayers are distinct from spells in that (in theory) the caster's deity can influence how the prayer works. Obviously ATM we have only 1 deity so it doesn't quite work like that, but in the future that may not be the case. So what happens if there is no deity?

Additionally, from a lore perspective what reason does any particular deity have for answering the prayer? Deities typically only grant prayers to loyal followers. It makes sense to have prayer scrolls so a player can read a prayer that they don't yet know, but IMO doesn't make sense if they don't have a deity.
-- _people_ :)

Husavik.

« Reply #3 on: 04, January 2022, 16:02:43 »
Quote from: Dolfo
So healing effect is very limited, but it's recastable very fast. Do we allow scrolls for all players, also new players without dp skill and without deity? Do we try higher healing spells. I don't know what damage high level monsters can inflict? But i think they go higher then 100+/- heal

Yep the evil boss I'm camping atm can hit me up to 850 ish.

When you fight linked mobs you also can lose HP very fast if you are victim of a huge combo.

But I like MH as it is like now.  It's part of the fun to have to run and avoid further hits during like 5-8seconds, being chased by 15 raas and/or 7 loms, until you have healed enough to fight again  ;D

I prefer to have to fight and run to save my life, than save my life then run to wait a long cooldown.

_people_

« Reply #4 on: 04, January 2022, 16:09:36 »
Quote from: Dolfo
So healing effect is very limited, but it's recastable very fast. Do we allow scrolls for all players, also new players without dp skill and without deity? Do we try higher healing spells. I don't know what damage high level monsters can inflict? But i think they go higher then 100+/- heal

Yep the evil boss I'm camping atm can hit me up to 850 ish.

When you fight linked mobs you also can lose HP very fast if you are victim of a huge combo.

But I like MH as it is like now.  It's part of the fun to have to run and avoid further hits during like 5-8seconds, being chased by 15 raas and/or 7 loms, until you have healed enough to fight again  ;D

I prefer to have to fight and run to save my life, than save my life then run to wait a long cooldown.

I'm quite happy with how Minor Healing works currently, but as the name implies there can always be more prayers suitable for different combat styles. However a slower healing prayer would likely need to wait until a secondary ActionTimer is implemented, as you'd be blocked from doing ANYTHING during cooldown.

EDIT: Or perhaps we should just go with a per-skill cooldown timer, which from what I've seen is way more common in games like Daimonin.
-- _people_ :)

Husavik.

« Reply #5 on: 07, January 2022, 19:14:14 »
It would certainly make sense that a true priest class could benefit from a Major Healing spell

Shroud

« Reply #6 on: 07, January 2022, 22:42:51 »
Actually the Major Healing spell isn't really the issue but more the way it's coded. Basically there are only 2 variables (excluding RNG) used to calculate the damage or heal for any spell/prayer. They are level of skill and attunements (note it's not stackable). So effectively a true priest with all the bells and whistles will perform the skill to the same level as a beggar in rags who happens to have the same attunements if they are the same level.

Logically you would expect that the wisdom stat would affect it along with an extra stat(s) to mirror damage for melee weapons. The fact that you can equip 1 item (amulet of divinity) and you're instantly a max damage/heal priest does limit class diversification if it is an objective. This has meant that only workaround currently available is to literally add stats to items that prevent the usage of spells/prayers as otherwise you could go for a full warrior build who also happens to be a high priest and archmage on the side ;)
Doesn't matter, you'd die anyway. ;D Shroud's a hacker. After many hours of deep thought I have came to that conclusion.

Dolfo

« Reply #7 on: 13, January 2022, 22:19:04 »
I like discussing. There is a game. They have a priest class and lots of cool spells on a life path. They have monsters poisoning, level draining, depleting players. Yeah till here that sounds good. Then they have a warrior class, melee and ranged weapons and a mage class. Ey you know, where i talking about? These poor other classes are not allowed to touch the altar of tabernackle before they join the priest class and do a quest? The tabernackle says no, i only grant you my power when you joined once the priest class, do the quest and then you can leave guild?

No, really that's nonsense. I tell you another story. Somewhere far away, their is this village. Most of them are priests or battle priest. And yeah somehow they made it to bind their spellpowers in healing balsams, but they failed at writing this spells to scrolls? Ah no, in my story they can write to spells and also sell these spells all over the world to the heros, who fight against the demons. And guildless and godless players can invoke these scrolls. And some of them say, wow these are mighty and good spells, i want to learn these spells too. I will become a mighty priest. And this is another reason, the priests do this and the tabernackle grant there healing to all who fight for the good. :D

But if somewhere outside uses dark magic, this goes more and more bad. It's like the 6 elements. Life, Death, Fire, Water, Earth, Wind. Some of them are against each other.

So if a player invokes a healing scroll and he is neutral he gain a normal healing in relation to the scroll level. If he is follower of the tackernackle he gain a bonus and if he had practiced a lot of life spells, his spells become more and more mighty. The last thing is more for spells, like a counter which atune your path more and more to life, or to fire or to earth.

And if a really bad guy invokes a spell of minor healing, perhaps touched a dark shrine of a dark god, this scroll don't say, no you can't, go first become a priest, make the quest, touch the shrine. No instead it will smite the unworthy caster to try to invoke a healing scroll.  :o

And if you still say no, i will go and build balsam of cure poison and balsam of restoration.  :P
Don't believe the shit, you hear in mainstream. Believe your own body. Your body is speaking always the true to you. But you need to understand your body. Hear to your body, not to your ego. And when body is calling to you: "Hey something is wrong!" find the reason(s) for that. School medicine don't go for that, they don't want to heal you. They want earn money and sell you medicine, you should take rest of you life. School medicine is corrupted by bad humans, like politician, like media.

Dolfo

« Reply #8 on: 14, January 2022, 00:08:32 »
On my way to craft scrolls i stepped over this to places. :P

apply.c line 1189
Code: [Select]
/*if (!change_skill(op, (spells[scroll_spell].type == SPELL_TYPE_PRIEST ? SK_DIVINE_PRAYERS :   SK_WIZARDRY_SPELLS)))
{
  return;
}*/
I out commented this. Now mages and priest can sell their scrolls to non mage/priest classes. But they still need literacy and when they are blinded, they can't invoke scrolls too.  :o

And in spell.util.c line 610
Code: [Select]
/* if it a prayer, grab the players god - if we have non, we can't cast - except potions and scrolls */
if ((spells[type].flags & SPELL_DESC_WIS) &&
     item != spellPotion && item != spellScroll &&
     (godname = determine_god(op)) == shstr_cons.none)
{
  ndi(NDI_UNIQUE, 0, op, "You need a deity to cast a prayer!");
  return 0;
}
I inserted scrolls there.  :P
It's cool for a level 1 player having 2 shops, one selling healing scrolls other healing potions.  8)
« Last Edit: 14, January 2022, 00:10:26 by Dolfo »
Don't believe the shit, you hear in mainstream. Believe your own body. Your body is speaking always the true to you. But you need to understand your body. Hear to your body, not to your ego. And when body is calling to you: "Hey something is wrong!" find the reason(s) for that. School medicine don't go for that, they don't want to heal you. They want earn money and sell you medicine, you should take rest of you life. School medicine is corrupted by bad humans, like politician, like media.

_people_

« Reply #9 on: 14, January 2022, 00:16:00 »
The only point I agree on is that the Divine Prayers skill (required to use an altar) need not be blocked by a quest.

One does not need to be a member of the priest guild to have a deity. Once you complete the quest (which does not require you to be in the guild, though the UI isn't well done in that script so it may seem that way [see footnote]) you can leave the guild (if you're in it) and go be a warrior/mage/etc. At any point after getting the DP skill you can apply an altar, and that's all you need to use scrolls.

I also believe this requirement should be extended to all MD's (though as stated previously I don't like some of the ones we have at all, but I've been outvoted there).

Regarding deity-specific effects: The issue here is that the game is coded (and the lore supports) players having a choice of multiple deities. There are a few different ways we can eventually implement this, but in any case the question becomes - which deity will help the faithless user?


[footnote] I tested this in-game. Endar does allow you to do his quest and learn Divine Prayers without being in the guild. But the "quest" keyword is missing the ^hypertext^. The quest can still be accessed by hitting Backspace and typing "quest" or "accept quest" or you could bind either of those to a key.

I'll be adding the hypertext markers in a few minutes.
-- _people_ :)

Shroud

« Reply #10 on: 14, January 2022, 13:25:12 »
One suggestion but for Endar when he teaches you the Divine Prayers skill would something like this be sensible?

Once you complete the quest you could get the following:

If the player doesn't have a deity then Endar can do the following:

To use the Divine Prayers skill you require a deity. Would you like me to baptise you as a follower of the tabernacle? Yes/No

If Yes then same effect as applying an altar

If No then message saying if you would like to become a follower of the tabernacle it can be done by applying an altar in any church.
Doesn't matter, you'd die anyway. ;D Shroud's a hacker. After many hours of deep thought I have came to that conclusion.

Dolfo

« Reply #11 on: 15, January 2022, 11:52:01 »
I tell you another story.
New player found his first scroll, he thinks wow, this could be usefull, when i am close to dead.
Then he learned to put this scroll on hotkeys and you know what happens? In fight he suddenly is close to dead, he presses his hotkey and *poof*. No healing instead something about missing devine prayer skill or you have no deity?
So from here it's always a shout:
How do i get devine prayer? How do i get a deity? How can i cast a scroll?
And we have discussion again, same problem again and again.

And then there is this balsam, as i said above chereth now sails balms of minor healing.  8)

So if you really want to keep that logic, we should improve the early npc's teaching this logic.

So fanrir teaches the basic interface, cashin the basics in ph and agiltity, chereth can give some information about scrolls and balms and deity and devine prayer and jahrlen can give some information about spells and magic devives. I try to implement some more topics in there.

We can also remove prayers from scrolls? So scrolls is for mage spells and balms is for priest prayers? But we have also restoration on a staff. Is this staff also limited to dp and deity? I must check this.  :o
« Last Edit: 15, January 2022, 12:03:53 by Dolfo »
Don't believe the shit, you hear in mainstream. Believe your own body. Your body is speaking always the true to you. But you need to understand your body. Hear to your body, not to your ego. And when body is calling to you: "Hey something is wrong!" find the reason(s) for that. School medicine don't go for that, they don't want to heal you. They want earn money and sell you medicine, you should take rest of you life. School medicine is corrupted by bad humans, like politician, like media.

_people_

« Reply #12 on: 16, January 2022, 14:12:52 »
You're absolutely right in that our "tutorial area" is lackluster as well as our help menu. I added the foundation for a better help menu in making it Lua scriptable, but didn't have time to make it as powerful as it could be before I went on a long hiatus.

I'm not so sure about giving Chereth balms - according to Cashin she's a master archer (though his sprite looks like a priest) and I think someone else says she lost her eyesight. If we do, we ought to give her some lore. Thought it's probably better to do this than either (a) make the player wait until they visit SHV, or (b) add another useless NPC to Guildhall.

I'm personally leaning toward keeping prayers on scrolls - I think of it as a passage from a holy scripture, allowing you to recite a prayer even if you aren't familiar with it. Balms are more of a "it just works, somehow" - there's no logical reason why the power of a deity is imbued in this fluid. Perhaps "holy water" from a potent holy site?
-- _people_ :)

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