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Author Topic: Starter Kit Mod  (Read 94545 times)
clobber
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« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2012, 04:52:35 pm »

Ok.

How about a person you talk to in GH, who says something like, "Hey! You there... I don't need this anymore." and offers an item. Then it isn't a quest, but isn't immediately there so allows for some more flexibility.

Then it could be low value at the shop, but high for the player.

zrubavel
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« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2012, 06:56:08 pm »

I don't think we need to make it pre-bound just that one char can have only one kind of this item bound- there would be no incentive to make alts to get multiples since you could only ever have one any way...
It should be worth very little to sell at the store, so that it is not used as a way to make money (i.e. making several alts and selling it at the store).
smacky
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« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2012, 07:08:12 pm »

@Clobber: Well OK from me, although again I'd prefer it if this person was Fanrir rather than a new NPC who only exists for this reason. After all, new players are told to speak to him first thing (that's why he's there at all). (SENTInce allows NPCs to properly initiate a conversation with a player on the same/a tiled map IIRC but I don't think that is appropriate here -- wait for the player to talk to him).

@Zrub: IIRC the only way to achieve this is via a one-drop quest/a script hack.
clobber
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« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2012, 08:00:15 pm »

Ok, how about instead it's in the player inv to start with but it is inside a worthless nodrop box with a level 5 req to use. The item also has level 5 req to stop a hl player simply getting it for them... but it adds an air of mystery... and could then be worth more.
zrubavel
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« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2012, 09:03:39 pm »

I like this suggestion you would have train alts to level 5 to get the item-but the box should have a fancy name so that it causes a new player to be interested in getting the item out...
clobber
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« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2012, 09:08:25 pm »

Cool :) I might mod the arch so it has a question mark or something on it.
smacky
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« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2012, 10:11:00 pm »

What have you got against Fanrir?

Well yes if you want a mystery unuseable item to just appear in a highly contrived manner for no reason whatsoever in each new player's inventory, this is possible with tls I guess...
clobber
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« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2012, 10:13:50 pm »

Fanrir says too much - it's much easier to learn things by doing rather than reading... Which is why I preferred the old style tutorial (except the randomness/lack of rpgness about it)...

Contrived can be good sometimes though - especially for new players starting an entirely new game... but perhaps in this case, not. So. Back to a previous suggestion, how about an npc offering it as something unrelated.

EDIT: We could put a patron in the GH bar? Rhodri looks rather lonely...
zrubavel
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« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2012, 11:04:57 pm »

What have you got against Fanrir?

Well yes if you want a mystery unuseable item to just appear in a highly contrived manner for no reason whatsoever in each new player's inventory, this is possible with tls I guess...
It could be called "Clobber's one time welcome gift" (J/K) but it could come with a little letter of introduction (yes appearing mysteriously in every newly minted char's inventory) explaining that "as a way of encouraging new  recruits in the struggle against Moroch and as a token of recognition of the hard struggle they are about to embark on the Tabernacle has placed a gift in their inventories that will help them a bit later on." (We could easily adjust this if/when other gods become available). I just kind of like the idea of starting off with the item from the get go...
However TBH I'm not much against Smacky's idea of having them talk to some one to get the item, as long as it does not involve a real quest.
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« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2012, 11:38:13 pm »

As the first guild a newbie is likely to join is the Mercenary Guild would it not follow that joining the ranks of the mercenaries would get you some equipment?  1 Weapon, 1 peice of Body Armor, 1 Accessory (shoes, cloak, hat) from Cashin or Cher (in the basement of the Merc Guild).  Cashin could tell the new merc that these items are the basic kit for new mercs and as the player rises in skill, to come back to the Merc Guild to return old equipment and draw a more powerful kit?

This could be repeated with the other guild leaders, Preist and Magic (Wizard?) as well.

Also, is it possible to give the equipment a Guild requirement, much like the minimum skill level requirement?  Only Merc Guild can use Merc Guild equipment, when changing guilds you can no longer wear the items.  Downside: A player wanting to switch guilds (or complete certain quests) will have to plan ahead and stash some non-guild equipment

Now I'm curious...
If equipment can have a minimum skill level to use can it also have a maximum skill level? 

When a player hits the maximum level for peice of Guild equipment the message "Your *item* is no longer adequate to fight the hoards, your power increases beyond its means of aiding you."  Maybe adding a message to go check back with the player's guild for higher level Guild gear.

As I think about this, I bet it would require new items (arches?) to keep the guilds' equipment separate from mobs treasure lists.  Hopefully nothing more complicated than duplicating some items and tweaking some stats to make sure that they are "no-drop" and maybe more guild specific.

Anyways, this might at least keep the player having to do the role playing thing of interacting with the game environment.  Increasing the number of NPC's that the player is going to have to interact with (to get new kits) and maybe allowing for a more interested player to seek out places with lesser known Guilds with more specialized equipment (Ninja Guild, Assasin Guild, Archer Guild, Pacifist Guild, Merchants Guild, etc).
smacky
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« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2012, 11:45:21 pm »

Fanrir's also entirely optional. I do agree there's currently too much read, not enough do in the first stage of the game though. I don't agree a B3-style tutorial is the way to go (back to) though. But that's OT...

A bar patron's fine as far as it goes, but what I think is the danger is MMs add individual NPCs who each have just one purpose and are then left with no other connection to the gameworld.

As an example, when Grommit added Delapidated Mine or whatever it's called he also added another archer NPC whose only purpose was to hand over the key. By merging this guy to the existing archer, Gaffrey, who also had just one reason for existence, we begin (only begin note) to create a believable, functioning world rather than just a game arena with cardboard cutout popups to meet each individual MMs whims as if in a vacuum.

Why would this bloke in the bar just be handing out mystery gifts? I've got to say the further we go with this idea, the less attractive it sounds to me as a player. Maybe it is just me, but free unuseable unknown items to drag about just because I started playing don't sound much of an incentive to keep playing. If I didn't earn it, why would I care about it?

EDIT: Ell makes some good points.
clobber
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« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2012, 09:04:29 pm »

Ok. How about Lothar? Or the guard? "A prisoner left this here." "Here, you'll need this to succeed out there - it might not fit yet, but keep training and it will!"

The bloke in a bar would be handing out mystery gifts because he's in a bar and pissed off his face, ofc ;)

Elly has some interesting ideas, but surely that would lead to too much being given for free? This is just a simple, "I know! I'll play until level 5 so I can wear my kick-ass item" kinda thing. Not only that, but logging in first time, a player wants to give a game a chance (hopefully) so when do they decide enough is enough and they do/don't like it? By adding covert signs like that, early on, they're more likely to stick around until level 5 to make a decision.

Or we could just laow and I'll not bother...

Smacky, on first suggesting it, what did you have in mind and liked? And what do other people think of the concept in general? Is it just the implementation that we're struggling with?
smacky
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« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2012, 04:31:34 pm »

Don't get me wrong.

The last thing I want to do is stand in the way of someone else doing something. Even when I'm not convinced it will be much of an addition. I might be wrong.

Also don't think I'm against new NPCs per se. It's just new NPCs for no reason other than a vessel for each new idea and who will therefore never be developed. OTOH it's obviously just as bad to pile feature after feature onto one guy's shoulders simply because he is already standing there. Each case on its merits. In this case I'd say Fanrir was the obvious best candidate (he exists to welcome and guide noobs), next the jailer handing out prisoners leftovers (or maybe Fra'haks stuff with suitable noise from Fra'hak = prompts player to talk to Fra'hak or maybe even provides opening for Fra'hak to initiate conversation), then a pub patron.

In the end you're a MM same as me so you have as much ability/right to do or not do things as me. You're right to get opinions before doing it, but don't forget that's all they are, even mine. If I'm in a minority, ignore me and do it anyway. That's how DEMOCRACY works, isn't it?

If it's a success, sucks to me. If it's a failure, it's very easy to revert.
clobber
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« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2012, 06:49:08 pm »

Ah, but you're making it sound as if the reason I am trying to get your opinion is because it is an absoloute must... but it isn't. Your opinion is one of the ones I value most.

The other questions I asked, I had hoped, would show this... as you say, general consensus is good, so even if you don't like the idea anymore, it may as well be the one you liked the most out of the ones you didn't. So what did you first like about it?

And the other questions were aimed at people in general. Anyone?

EDIT: Talking IG, people have suggested a +0.3-0.5 damage ring... or a choice of 1/3 items (one ph, one wis, one wiz) and generally recieved well.


Ellwoodblues
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« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2012, 04:28:46 am »

I'm down with Smacky's "don't flood the game with single use NPC's."  Especially since there are tons of NPC's that just stand around/shuffle around with nothing else to do.

Clobber's idea is a good one.  Its a way to try to get the budding Daimonin nooblet to stick around for a few levels.  Level grinding is boring and when a player starts out, the enemies are both difficult and don't give lots of exp or loot.  So giving a player something shiny that they can drool over for a level or two before being able to use it gives some extra incentive.  (If it were an ego bound item, it would also give the player a crash course on ego binding.)

Something to think about, would be the players that get angry that they get some loot that they cannot equip.  Also, players that don't realize what a no-drop item is, assuming that no-drop items are used for the "noobie bait" dropping the item accidently.  Though this isn't hard to fix (no-drop keys can be reclaimed easily enough).

Thinking about my previous post and resolving it against the direction that Clobber was going for, I may have started to drift off topic.  More of a benefit of being a member of an NPC's guild and less to do with keeping new players or old players starting a new character engaged.
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