I like this idea, but maybe add a bit more to the back story- the battle mage guild (and all the other something +something guilds) were formed by renegade guild masters (or whatever the term we use) and have sour relations with the pure guilds- so if you join the battle mage guild you A. Can not return to the other "pure" guilds as easly B. While you can use all the skills of both guilds you do not gain the "boosts" to stats (st etc for warrior) that you get if you join a pure guild.
Question how do you become a guild master in battle mage guild? And then how would you become a guild master in Mage Priest guild after? and then in Warrior Priest (i.e. if it is just by reaching certain levels in each skill so 80- by the time you are a guild master in battle mage you have 80 mage and 80 warrior- to become a guild master in priest-mage all you need to get is 80 in priest? and then you have 80 in warrior and priest so you are already a guildmaster in warrior and priest)?- we might have to handle some of this with quests...
We need to work on making the "no guild" option more robust- by adding "no guild" maps if we start having guild maps etc.

I think that is how it is atm.

I think guildless could become rogues? And rogue members of other guilds teach them skills do they perhaps know the same at a lower level but don't get the specific exp bonus. Then if they join another guild the skill master insists they demonstrate their ability rather than reteach but forbids the use of skills leant that are not associated with their guild.

Seeing as this got moved into a public thread (probably a good thing) I'll quote ,y recent post from yet another secret board:

No, Fanrir does not teach spells or prayers (though yes, he ought to mention why). This is one of the areas where people's obsession with classes is kind of contrary to Daimonin's intended (since before I got involved even) gameplay..

It seems that as soon as people login for the first time they expect to be a particular class -- popularly one of Warrior, Mage, Priest/Healer (sadly the current implementation of guilds buys into this idea and so imposes strict limits on players using out-of-class skills -- which players then complain about even though this restriction is, I suppose a logical outcome of the class system which they expected/demanded in the first place).

As a result when someone starts play with the determination to be, say, a Mage, they are horrified that they don't immediately have spells and 'Mage gear'.

In fact Dai is about guilds, not classes, and learning spells/prayers is done organically as you progress through the game (usually as a reward for a quest).

Wizardry Spells and your first spell and Divine Prayers and your first prayer are learned within the first few levels by everyone (in GH and Sh IIRC). This is part of the flow of the early game. Like learning a ranged weapon when you first get to Sh.

Later on (currently not until you get to Sg) you can join the Wizard guild (only ATM IIRC) which should offer speciali-sation. Most players will already have joined the Mercs which obviously offers non-casting combat speciali-sation. These should be speciali-sations without necessarily an outright ban on the types of skills and abilities speciali-sed in by other guilds. IOW a Merc can still cast spells, just not as well as a Wizard who in turn can still physically fight, just not as well as a Merc (and subskills like 2h and pole are only available to a merc -- a real merc in the case of 2h).

That said, there is currently an MM discussion on reworking guilds which I suspect is headed in a totally different direction, so I'd better go see what's going on there...

So that's just to add a different take on guilds than the suggestion above.

Oh and the stat thing. Don't take current stat boni/mali too much as gospel. This will change. Eventually.

I'm unsure if "**** the guilds" is a case of funny censorship that makes things look a lot worse than they are or not ;P

As far as how I would like guilds to progress I'm actually kind of conflicted. On the one hand I consider it a terrible waste how I have a character that has 110Ma/Dp who is unable to cast any spells despite being an expert in both those subjects just cause he joined a guild that doesn't permit it. On the other hand I'm not necessarily opposed to concept of then having ultra specialized advanced guilds or maybe a prestige class that I assume was what was attempted with current implementation.

Of the options I would say 3rd is preferable from a player perspective but we also have drawback that once everyone joins master guild we would end up with clones who have 110 in everything and same guild. I'll think a bit more over it tomorrow and see what I can come up with

EDIT: Had to write american for censor

I thought a little and first of all I think it's probably useful to list all things that can be affect by guilds:

+/- stat
spell access
weapon speed change
regen changes

I'm unsure if there is anything else I've missed or that is available just hasn't been used yet. So that for example could a guild even affect resists, attunements etc?

Now first question I would ask is does that mean that in theory you could design a guild for a certain role. For example you could have let's say an Assassin's Guild that increases AC and WC a lot, weapon speed gets faster and decreases damage and maybe armour? Or alternatively a tanking guild that increases HP and resists but slows weapon speed? If pets works correctly even a summoning guild is theoretically possible. Admittedly these things will take more work but could apply in 2 weeks(TM) time.

Next question would be is it intended to actually make these new guilds access new skills/spells? Since for example for a warrior at the moment they use Killrin Warrior set that has elemental and death denied. As a result all attacking spells are already ruled out so even in Master guild a warrior wouldn't really have that much extra and that can already be compensated by food/potions. I guess having a mage that can heal is useful although even then considering that mages cannot cast spells with warrior gear it means divine sorceror and master is pretty much equivalent for a mage.

Next thing I'll ask is that if let's say the Paladin's Guild requires mastery of the Warrior's and Priest's Guild would it make sense to say that a Paladin inherits all quest privileges of both Warrior and Priest's guild so that if let's say a new warrior/priest guild quest is added that can still access it? Presumably then a member of Master's Guild would be a honorary member of every guild at least on standard tree.

As far as how I would like to see progression maybe here is an ok idea

Basic Guilds => Intermediate Guilds => Master Guild => Spe****ation Guilds/Prestige Class

Basic Guilds = Current
Intermediate Guilds = Paladin/Divine Sorceror/Battlemage
Master = Master
Specialization = Ideas suggested above like assassin.

However I would suggest making quests for specialization guilds extremely hard to close to impossible alone. By that I mean having it being harder than FT so that to actually complete any advanced quest would require teamwork even if only one person benefits. This should ideally be filled with challenges that 110s should struggle to complete that would in sense add a challenge beyond what exists now. Note that this can be delayed quite a a bit as it would probably require forethought on exactly what and how it would be done.

That's just ideas, of course as usual if bad they can be ignored I can see that _person_ is following this thread closely as everyone knows when kids light fireworks instead of fleeing they watch it a few inches away from their face until it blows up

P.S. I would assume in idea case scenario it should also complement Joe's work on item balancing 

I try not to post too much on anything serious anymore,  I'm sure you've all noticed how opinionated I am.  But I was one of the few players that liked the new guilds. The only prob I ever had with them was not being able to use MD in priest and warrior guilds, this is fixed now so all is good. 

I hope to see more guilds such as agility,   social guild ( gives boost to stats if in group), creature guilds (join this guild and turn into a beast at night) could have a daytime and night time guild like say vampires and werewolves or something less common.  Some of these are silly ideas but make for great fun in game.  Also master guilds sounds awesome, actually I'd like to see each type of guild have say 3 stages to master in them.  It would not be an easy feat but if a player were to work thru it he would gain more stats each time.

So basically have minor, major and master in each of the guilds, and once a player has mastered for example the warrior guild, he would be free to join the paladin guild as a minor guildsman.  But all this is fun and easy to say since I'm not the one spending hours and late nights trying to code it.  So feel free to disregard anything I say here! 

Well if the guilds do get expanded in way Joe and _person_ described it could actually be a viable alternative. You could even have guilds that start off very weak but have hidden easter eggs as you progress that make them a lot stronger. If I remember correctly didn't _people_ transform into an ant at one point so reproducing that might be part of it with inheriting a different stat base doing the rest

As far as Master Guild goes I was more referring to what clobber was referring to that might be clobberer's guild but guild ranks is also a good addition. I think mage guild theoretically has ranks but I never quite worked out how it was meant to affect things.

Well one thought I had is would it be possible have something like an attuned status but for guilds that has a similar function. So that for example let's say a warrior guild would have repelled magic and prayers so that they could still cast but would be a lot less powerful. Alternatively a mage guild would have attuned equivalent giving a boost to spell damage. That would mean that in same way that a mage can use a weapon but does about half the damage since he can only equip 1h weapons a warrior can cast spells but only does half the damage too. In theory this would then mean that in theory you could then have it so that a warrior could cast support spells on themselves. For example Self Strength is a viable self buff for a warrior and it means that skill in magic/prayers etc isn't all wasted.

Of course as Joe says it's probably someone else who will be spending hours and late nights trying to code it.  So feel free to disregard anything I say here!