Community defines its values

[fiendstar]

well lol vulgarity as it is said is depicting these actions but a chat filter to me it would seem as if your limiting what others say but im not against that but its just that with a chat filter in place that the beloved vols would be pretty much out of work due to them acting as the law keepers and on another level i think that a chat filter system would not be a strong point at this time and age because going back to what i said in the line up that the  vols impose their presences and such in a upholding manner but also people shouldn't be limited by a filter system because it makes me at least feel like you can not express your feelings in a written form i believe that the  vols again lol handle themselves fairly well in this situation so i think we should leave it up to them

[ANICH]

While we're on the subject, I have to clarify a couple things.

if vulgarity has no place in the game, then the obvious solution would be to have a simple chat filter on the client side.

Vulgarity- see rule 2d. The client does have a chat filter system. However, the client does not come with a full chat filter list. It is empty. So you will have to configure it yourself. Settings -> Options -> Communication -> Enable chatfilter. Use '/cfilter' command to configure chat filter list.

vols impose their presences and such in a upholding manner

It is merely for technical reasons that these privileges aren't handed to just anyone. While using these tools in the right way is important, being a VOL/GM is not.

[Drunkmonkey]

Context is very important to this rule. Shouting 'F***! I'm so bored' will be judged more harshly than shouting 'F***! I was three exp points from levelling and I was killed'.

(he spelled leveling wrong )

Can we go into detail about the differences in this. for instance, in this example (the quote) its obvious that one is just saying the word to say it. and the other one is from anger(i think?)

so if i just randomly shouted "f***" i could be kicked. whereas if i say "F***, I died" a mute or a warning?

If that's the case then Daimonin is smart not to have a permanent chat filter.

t the beloved vols would be pretty much out of work due to them acting as the law keepers

I thought a Vol (volunteer ?) job was to help with technical or misunderstanding ingame. rather then to uphold the law like a GM (game master/moderator) would ? (mind you in my case it was a gm that muted me)

EDIT:

* smacky attributed GR quote.

[ANICH]

If explicit language is directed towards an individual or group, it would be treated much harshly. Saying **** out of the blues will just earn you soap and water. And if continued, you will be promoted to a mute.

I thought a Vol (volunteer ?) job was to help with technical or misunderstanding ingame.

I assume this is common misconception, since this is what I was told when I was a new player (and what I assumed too). The title is misleading (isn't everyone here volunteers?) really it should be Voluntary Moderators. Anyway a VOL's role is simply to deal with the more common moderation tasks in Daimonin. GMs are more like detectives, they deal with problems that are harder to see, as well as organisers for VOLs. For B5 their roles will be a little different, in terms of moderation, it will stay the same.

(he spelled levelling wrong )

It's spelt in English.

[ThePlaneskeeper]

note: British english is NOT = American english.  Assume they spelled it correctly :p

[smacky]

Can we go into detail about the differences in this. for instance, in this example (the quote) its obvious that one is just saying the word to say it. and the other one is from anger(i think?)

so if i just randomly shouted "f***" i could be kicked. whereas if i say "F***, I died" a mute or a warning?

That's an overly black-and-white interpretation, but essentially yes, that's right.

Shouting f*** is against the rules, whatever your excuse. So it will always incur some level of VOL wrath. However, the fact is people (generally) swear when they're upset about something.

Even so, the vast majority of people can suppress the urge. Those that can't have a medical or social problem which is beyond the scope of this game to address, so that's not an excuse for breaking the rule.

Further to that, to swear in game, you have to actually press a number of keys. Which in itself allows a short cooling down period. So while someone can blurt out a naughty naughty word in the heat of the moment, this does not translate to typing the same.

So there is never a reason why you 'couldn't help' swearing ingame. You are always in the wrong and subject to a penalty.

Context may partially determine the severity of the penalty, as above. And different VOLs react differently too.

So one time or person may get a warning for swearing but another may be muted or kicked. Seems unfair? Tough. Don't swear.

That said, please don't everyone overreact and get all moralistic or plead 'won't anyone think of the children?' That extreme is no less troublesome than the endless 'freedom of speech' rants of yesteryear.

Just stay calm and everyone will have a good time.

If that's the case then Daimonin is smart not to have a permanent chat filter.

Well I agree.

[Drunkmonkey]

Ok. so i think i understand (kinda).

Further to that, to swear in game, you have to actually press a number of keys. Which in itself allows a short cooling down period. So while someone can blurt out a naughty naughty word in the heat of the moment, this does not translate to typing the same.

i type fast? its hard to explain. i can type as fast as i talk (slow but still) and i get faster when I'm in an argument. although from an outside standpoint it might be hard to read. but I'm typing this as I'm coming up  with it. not thinking about it then typing it. (if that makes any sense at all?) its like carrying along a conversation. I (at least) don't think before i speak. it would be awkward standing there thinking about stuff to say?!



Anyway. before i make no sense at all. just wanted to add that i apologize for the troubles i caused for this. and it has since made me stop shouting altogether.


btw -> not to be a noob. but i never really got the answer to what exactly a raid item is...

[zrubavel]

I am not totally sure how to say this, so I probablly shouldn't but I will try any way...
This post started by stating that it is the community that defines its values, and one aspect of that is maintining certain standreds in /shout (my personal feeling about these standreds is that they are not the "lowest common denominator of what we can all agree on so that we can get along" but rather a higher aspritation of an idealized form of community).
I feel that although one may achieve this by "hardwireing" a chatfilter that automatically filters out cretain words, it will loose the spirit-the idea that these standerds are the expressed will of the community and that it is our task to uphold and live up to them.
In this sense the vols/mods serve not as an outside power policing the community, but as those mambers of the community tasked with the responsiblity of reminding and at times enforcing, these standerds.

[fiendstar]

Well personally i think the system that is implemented already is a fine one that's worked well in the past....
im also a big believer of the not broke dont fix it saying but to some extent i think that unless the current system is a system that no longer is deemed operable then we should let it be and as in this relating to this post as implied  in a earlier comment  that this game has defined its values
in my opinion this community has them and are values that are typical and accepted by most so i think that this system is one that works

[LordGrunt]

Mild chat filter should be present, to prevent basic swear words to be displayed. But the way its made here, on forum is the proper way. It allows word to be recognized for those willing to (for example naughty chat of two buddies in tell; why filter them?).
However having more strict and efficient filters leads people to the urge to bypass it. In the end such words can be spelled out anyway, whatever your coding effort will be.
Other side of 'too good' filter is that it will eventually interrupt normal conversations (with no swearing intended). Perfect example is runescape, they have one mean and annoying filter.
On subject of community, Im glad it can still maintain chat quality. But keep in mind its just a few people online ATM chatting. Expecting the same with 100 or more players online is simply unrealistic. Thats where mild filter could find its use; IMO better to have it now and test it than be sorry later.

[grommit]

There is a town in England called S****horpe. It's often hit by chat filters

(He he - like this one, though it lost the initial 'S' too.)

[zrubavel]

My itunes filters out "honky" in country music titles which have the word "honkytonk"

[evilasa]

Chat filters suck...there's always ways around them and they take out perfectly legitamate words like honky-tonk and ****horpe, amongst others.

Can I just mention the issue of spelling expletives out on maps by dropping items ( such as coins )? I'm not exactly sure what the rules are on this, I think it may be covered by Anich's thread on item spamming ( I initially wanted to post this there but it's been locked ) but I think it could do with some clarification.

* evilasa  LMAO at the broken chat filter on here...s****horpe why's it take the 's' out altogether?

[fiendstar]

lol i agree though chat filtering really isn't a step in the right direction at this point and time based on the size of the community and its members also as said chat filterer can be a bit useless after a while when you type something and its blocked for the word somehow relating to a word that you may have not even been meaning to say and thats another reason i dont like machines they dont have the ability to learn as humans do and comprehend on the level we do in this sort of matter plus if something like that is implemented most likly there will be a decline in the population not immediately but over time numbers will start to dwindle and as said in the past rules are meant to be broken and in this case bypassed so unless this is a must at this point and time and is in dire need to be fixed or replaced then i think we should put that on the back burner

[killall559]

true we really dont need a chat filter atm but eventualy when we get out of beta and once the game is rated far as T for teen or E for everyone we will have to think of a chat filter of some sorts for atleast shout.  or we could just have the game rated M for mature then we can cuss and swear all we want